Peloton’s $20.5M Patent Lawsuit Verdict

476: Peloton Slapped With $20.5M Verdict Over Patent

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What We Covered:

A federal jury ordered Peloton to pay Japan’s NEC Corporation $20.5 million after ruling that Peloton’s Bike and Tread infringed NEC’s content-streaming patent. On Episode 476, we break down what the verdict actually means, why the jury found no willful infringement, and what happens next.

Also this episode:

• Peloton’s supply chain leadership team grows
• Peloton quietly invites members to new Outdoor Run Club teams
• The Peloton app adds a “follow” filter
• A Napa Valley hotel gets Peloton Spaces
• Inside Peloton’s Santa Monica residency
• Multiple Peloton instructors confirmed for SeaWheeze
• Peloton instructor Aditi Shah attends the Time 100 Creators event, plus her new 7 Days to Better Sleep program
• Camila Ramón’s single gets the DJ John Michael treatment
• Peloton instructor Kirsten Ferguson confirms she’s running the Chicago Marathon
• Charlotte Weidenbach talks VO2 max
• Our TCO Top 5 listener-recommended classes
• Emma Lovewell celebrates MTV’s 45th anniversary
• Marcel Dinkins’ 120-minute run
• Matt Wilpers brings back Power Zone Max: Power Profile
• Christine D’Ercole’s rare classical music ride
• Ally Love joins Vibe & Flow
• Andy Speer’s 3-2-1 Tempo training
• Becs Gentry’s Norwegian 4×4 Method Tread series
• Hannah Frankson confirms a UK Carnival Celebration ride
• Peloton Birthdays: Olivia Amato, Christine D’Ercole, and Rebecca Kennedy

The Clip Out is the longest-running independent Peloton podcast. New episodes every Friday.  Hosted by Crystal O’Keefe and Tom O’Keefe  theclipout.com  Instagram: @clipoutcrystal

Transcript:

Crystal: Welcome to the Clip Out Podcast, episode 476. This is Crystal O’Keefe.

Tom: And this is Tom O’Keefe. So we woke up in good moods.

Crystal: We did.

Tom: We get to, I get to keep my job. Woo-hoo.

Crystal: So,

Tom: so that’s a good thing.

Crystal: It is.

Tom: Yeah. It’s nice to be gainfully employed.

Crystal: Listen, the world is a shit show, but I am happy today.

Tom: Yes.

Crystal: I’m just enjoying that.

Tom: Yes. We’ll take our wins where we find them,

Tom: So, um, yeah, so that’s, uh, [00:01:00] that’s good news.

Crystal: I don’t really even think we’ve talked about it on this show. I

Tom: don’t know we haven’t, uh, but there was a-

Crystal: I don’t want to get into the whole thing … yeah, there was a- You listen to the Patreon if you wanna know the story.

Tom: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. We’ll go into it in detail over there. But there was- Mm … a moment where we thought, “Oh, might, uh, have to-

Crystal: We might, we might be moving …

Tom: might be moving.” So maybe we still will if I get a good enough job offer, but, uh- Well,

Crystal: maybe …

Tom: yeah. Uh, so- We’ll see … uh, so with that being said-

Crystal: Yeah …

Tom: what, pray tell, do you have in store for people this week?

Crystal: Well, we’ve got, uh, a new lawsuit. I know. I know. We just had a new lawsuit last week. This actually isn’t a new lawsuit.

Tom: It’s a resolution to a-

Crystal: It’s a resolution to a lawsuit, and it’s a really bad resolution, uh, for Peloton.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: Uh, NEC is quite happy, I’m s- I’m certain. Yeah. Uh, so we’re gonna get into all that.

Tom: You know, I have thoughts about that. I’m not sure it’s as bad as it might sound or as good as it might sound for NEC, but we’ll get there.

Crystal: Okay. Uh, then we have we’re gonna talk about the latest way that Peloton is growing. They’re asking… They’re putting out there on LinkedIn new job postings, [00:02:00] so we’re gonna talk about what that looks like this week, not to mention the newest teams that Peloton has added.

Crystal: It’s kind of fascinating. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll talk about that. We have a brand-new feature that they’ve added to Teams as well and Napa Valley getting a Peloton space. Ooh. And what does that mean?

Tom: Fancy pants.

Crystal: And the same weekend, Peloton has a Santa Monica residency. What does that mean? Hmm. So many questions.

Crystal: Uh, and there’s a lot of instructors coming up for the Sea Wheeze race. We’re gonna talk about that as well. Uh, we’ve got instructors in the news, several stories from our instructors who are always busy. And, uh, then we’ve got the content to go over, which is gonna be telling you about classes you may have missed and some, some that are coming up that you don’t want to miss.

Tom: Okay. Well, before we get to all that, shameless plugs. Don’t forget we’re available on Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeart. Tune in wherever you find a podcast, you can find us. While you are there, be sure and follow us so you never miss an episode. [00:03:00] I’ll wait. Okay, I’m done waiting.

Crystal: You won’t wait very long.

Tom: I’m very impatient.

Crystal: I know.

Tom: I flush while I pee. That’s how impatient

Crystal: I am.

Tom: Oh, yeah. That’s true. Yeah. Uh, and so, uh, you can also, uh, find us on the Facebook, facebook.com/theclipout. While you’re there, like the page, join the group. W- we also have a Patreon. Uh, what do you get for your $5 a month? Uh, your shockingly low $5 a month.

Tom: You get ad-free episodes, you get early access to episodes, and you get all sorts of bonus content this year. In addition to my job controversy, we will be discussing, Uh, now I got… I wrote, like, little notes to myself and I’m like, “What the hell does that mean?” 14 years poor health.

Crystal: I have no idea. I don’t know.

Tom: I don’t even remember what my… Oh, I remember now.

Crystal: Okay.

Tom: People now are living an f- for an average of 14 [00:04:00] years in poor health.

Crystal: Oh. Oh.

Tom: So we’ll talk about that-

Crystal: Oh, that’s

Tom: it … and what that means. Yeah. And also, why that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Crystal: Okay. All right.

Tom: So-

Crystal: And, and just keep your ear out. We’ve got some other things-

Tom: Yeah

Crystal: coming up, too.

Tom: Throughout the episode- Yeah … we’ll tease other things. Uh, and also the rise of men-only gyms. You’ll, you’ll- I’ve

Crystal: got thoughts …

Tom: you’ll never guess who wants men-only gyms, except you’ll absolutely guess who wants them. Uh, and which Peloton employee gets to be a judge for a major award?

Tom: All that and more in your bonus episode. You can also, uh, watch us over on the YouTube, youtube.com/theclubhouse if you wanna look in our eyes. I’m trying to smolder. And, uh-

Crystal: I don’t have the ability to smolder.

Tom: And s- the hell you don’t.

Tom: And sign up for the newsletter. Get all the links and [00:05:00] stuff sent to you at theclubhouse.com. Okay. So there’s all that. Let’s dig in, shall we?

Crystal: We shall.

Tom: Peloton has been slapped with a $20.5 million patent infringement judgment. It’s the .5, I think, that really-

Crystal: Yeah. I think it’s the .5 that really puts people over the edge. Yeah. You know? But yeah, $20.5 million really upsets people. So, here’s the thing. This has been working its way through the courts since 2022.

Crystal: NEC actually came after Peloton back in 2020- 2022, and they said that the way that Peloton was distributing their media was infringing upon three different patents that they had created to distribute digital media. Peloton argued that they didn’t infringe, and the patent itself was invalid. There were three patents, as I said, but apparently the [00:06:00] proceedings actually stopped for about a year while they, the trial and appeal board review, they just they, the board looked at two of the patents, okay?

Crystal: Right. And they said one of those patents was completely invalidated during that review, and then the case resumed in March of 2025. That takes us… So now we have two patents left.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: So from March of 2025 till now, it’s still been winding its way through the system on these last two patents, and a Delaware jury said, “Oh, Peloton, what have you done?

Crystal: It was bad, and now you owe $20.5 million in damages.”

Tom: Didn’t they also say that it was that it was unintentional? It wasn’t, uh-

Crystal: Peloton? Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. That it was not a deliberate

Crystal: attempt. Not only, not only was it invalid and it didn’t count, but also it wasn’t on purpose.

Tom: Right.

Crystal: Which, I mean, I think that kind of makes sense.

Crystal: Oh, I- I, yeah.

Tom: I mean, you still can’t do it.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: You still have to be aware of what you’re building.

Tom: [00:07:00] So while nobody ever wants to write a check for $20 million- Mm-hmm … even less so 20.5-

Tom: In the grand scheme of things is this that much money to a company like Peloton?

Crystal: Well, there’s, uh, several different ways to look at this. One who knows what Peloton puts aside for these lawsuits.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: You know, um, somebody wrote in yesterday, hopefully they’ve been accruing this on their, on their, their little profit and loss statements for years.

Crystal: Right. And so maybe it won’t even have an impact. I would love to believe that Peloton was forward-thinking enough- Yeah … to do that. I guess it kind of depends on how confident they were gonna win or lose. Yeah. Right? And then what degree of safety they had from their financial side of things and what they did.

Crystal: So I don’t think that in the, as you put it, the grand scheme of things, it’s that much money. However, when you’ve been cutting people, [00:08:00] cutting costs- Sure … cutting technology- That’s fair … I feel like it’s a pretty big deal for $20 million. Yeah. Like- So- … feel like they could have spent that on some other things.

Tom: Yeah. So here’s my next question. Thought about this.

Crystal: All right.

Tom: Is this maybe similar to the early days- Mm-hmm … of the music licensing lawsuits? In that they couldn’t get agreements and so they just started playing the music so they… Because nobody knew how to h- how to bill for the songs, right? Because it’s not quite a sync license, it’s not quite licensing the song outright, it’s not a sample.

Tom: And so because there was no real paradigm in place, they were just like, “We’re gonna play it and you can sue us, and then the courts will decide, and then we’ll pay it then.” I’m like, is this maybe a version of, of that?

Crystal: Maybe. Maybe it is. But regardless-

Tom: Yeah …

Crystal: it’s still not great news. No.

Crystal: Especially right before their earnings call.

Tom: For sure.

Crystal: You know, people the… When I say people, I mean the, um, [00:09:00] what is it? The stock market.

Tom: Right. The in- the investor class.

Crystal: They react to- For sure … such news. Yeah. So, so what will, what will this do to earnings? And I feel like Peloton had to have, had to have known this was coming.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: And they just can’t talk about it. You know, there’s always that blackout period.

Tom: Right.

Crystal: So, like, how long have they known?

Tom: You know, there’s also a chance the investor class looks at this- Mm-hmm … and goes, “Oh, cool, it’s been resolved.”

Crystal: Totally.

Tom: Right? Like the, like-

Crystal: Every time I expect a result- Yeah … from the stock market, it goes the opposite.

Crystal: Right. So I don’t know.

Tom: Which is why we, we just, like-

Crystal: That’s why we stay out of it,

Tom: man … we just, like, we put it in our little mutual funds and we’re like- … we let other people think about it because- Heck

Crystal: yeah …

Tom: they might be bad at it too, but we know we’re bad at it. So we’ll just leave it alone.

Tom: But but they, they might look at this and go, “This has been hanging over their heads. It’s resolved. Not great, but not necessarily the dick punch it could’ve been. And, like, now we can move on.” And they’ll be like, “Cool.” ‘Cause what the markets ultimately hate is uncertainty.

Crystal: That’s true.

Crystal: And I will say this [00:10:00] as oppo- for the point of you saying that, like, this is a very small- portion of money- Right … for the whole Peloton. Back in 2023 when they resolved their dispute with Dish Network, that was $75 million. Yeah. And that was a settlement. It never made it to, like, a ruling.

Tom: Right.

Crystal: So maybe in the grand scheme of things, this is a very small thing.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: You know? I, I don’t know. You know, Peloton companies in general, but I, I always feel a little caught off guard by the things that Peloton will say on their earnings calls because it’s like I used to feel like I had a really good pulse for, like, what was coming. Right. And now it’s like , ” I don’t know.”

Crystal: Yeah. I have no idea. And we will probably not be reporting on it day of for the podcast. We will have articles and such. Right. But yeah, there’s just too much going on. It’s too

Tom: much of a time crunch.

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. So can’t do it. But yeah, so I, I don’t know, Tom. Maybe you are correct. But not great timing, especially from this [00:11:00] brand-new lawsuit that they filed last week- Right

Crystal: that was filed against them from Flow Motion Research Development-

Tom: Yeah …

Crystal: uh, over the row. So I don’t know. It’s, it- Yeah … to me, it’s just not great news when

Tom: you- Yeah, you would obviously rather win these things than lose them.

Crystal: Or, or not have them happen at all.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: Yeah. That’d be cool.

Tom: Uh, for sure.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: So, uh, Peloton’s supply chain leadership is growing.

Crystal: Mm-hmm.

Tom: At least prior to the lawsuit. Guess what, supply chain

Crystal: leadership? Oh. So the new VP that we, that they just had, It was Cameron Hetrick. She r- recently put a new job opening out there, director of supply chain strategy and excellence. So, she’s- And

Tom: excellence?

Crystal: That’s what it says.

Tom: That just sounds like a child making up a job title.

Tom: I mean- And excellence.

Crystal: I… Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:00] I can see that.

Tom: I am director of supply chain and awesomeness. I’m gonna add that to my job title at work. Okay. Manager of booking, marketing, and kick-ass-edness. That’s my new job title.

Crystal: Okay.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: I wanna hear what your… I wanna hear what Sandy has to say about this. Um, she’s saying that, uh, Cameron is saying that this is a fit between her personal experience as a member and a chance to apply data and AI to Peloton’s operation.

Crystal: And so she’s excited to work at her new role alongside people who care about the member impact as much as she does, which I think is actually what they’re referring to with the excellence. Oh. However, I have seen the Facebook, and I do know that people feel as if the customer service side of Peloton has taken a shit dive, and it has stayed in the shit dive for years.

Crystal: I

Tom: was like, when have they not felt like that?

Crystal: It’s just not improved.

Tom: [00:13:00] Right.

Crystal: Okay? And so it’s been there for a long time. I feel like the excellence part is referring to that. So, like, in… How I hear it- Yeah … is let’s get our supply chain out to people-

Tom: Yeah …

Crystal: and respond to their needs quickly and with excellence.

Crystal: Take it for what you will, but I believe that’s what they’re trying to do.

Tom: Director of supply chain and being bitchin’. Being bi- Hmm,

Tom: Peloton has been quietly inviting members to new outdoor run club teams.

Crystal: Yeah. So, okay, we know that there’s run clubs. Peloton London has been doing that. Peloton New York Studios has been doing that. They have one about once a month, and during the nice weather, depending on which country you’re in- Sure

Crystal: you know, they’re gonna vary a little bit- Yeah … time-wise. And, uh, they have them about once a month. Well, now Teams has run clubs. So, so there’s, like, Peloton official teams. Like, there’s one for whatever the one Matt does about, like, [00:14:00] longevity, about, like, just living and being- Right … and exercising for- Okay

Crystal: for, like, the ability to be alive and move. Yeah. And then there’s one… There’s, like, a team for High Lip+, and Rebecca chimes in on that. Peloton chimes in on that. They’re official teams, so teams can be run by people like myself- Okay … or they can be run by Peloton and sometimes instructors. Well, the new one is by Peloton, and it’s outdoor run clubs.

Crystal: There’s one for London, and there’s one for PSNY. And, uh, the idea is that you can get to know what the run clubs are. You’re hearing about it there instead of just social media. So I think this is yet another way that Peloton is trying to give more breadth to Teams and give people a place to find out about things other than social media.

Tom: You know, I’m not gonna lie, like I don’t fully understand run clubs.

Crystal: Okay. Well, let’s talk about run clubs in bonus.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: And we’re gonna talk about why the [00:15:00] teams piece of it is important.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: Okay? So I’m gonna- So I’ll bring it all together for you from Peloton perspective.

Tom: Is it a class?

Crystal: What?

Tom: Is it like, do they get special jackets? We

Crystal: got it- Okay … we got it in bonus. We got it in bonus.

Tom: Okay. Do the other clubs ever fight each other like Sharks and Jets in West Side Story?

Crystal: Gonna have to wait till the bonus to

Tom: find out.

Tom: Okay. Oh. ‘Cause there’s so much violence, we can’t talk about it here?

Crystal: Yes.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Fun.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Uh, the Peloton app has added a follow filter

Crystal: Right, but specifically for teams, okay?

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: So, the teams aspect of it, uh, in the app, you can see the teams that you belong to, but now they’ve added filters where it’s like if you are following people, y- you can see just the teams that you are following, just the people you are following.

Crystal: You can see their activity. You can filter, you can toggle back and forth between those two things.

Tom: Gotcha.

Crystal: It’s just a more simplistic way of viewing teams. Instead of having one big feed, you’re filtering your feed [00:16:00] out a bit. Does that make sense?

Tom: I think so.

Crystal: Well, we can talk about that more in bonus as well.

Crystal: ‘Cause it’s kind of all related. It’s

Tom: all… Yes.

Crystal: It really is. It’s

Tom: all one big thing.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Uh, a Napa Valley hotel is getting Peloton spaces.

Crystal: Yes. They got them. Uh, it’s a, um, Hilton, and what they did is they debuted a dedicated Pel- Peloton workout area in their wellness spa. So we’ve seen this happen in other gyms.

Crystal: We’ve seen it happen in, we saw it happen at LA Fitness. Mm-hmm. We’ve seen it at a couple of, like, universities. But keep in mind, Peloton right now is very much in the commercial business. They’re taking that Precor side. They’re taking the, uh, heavy-duty Peloton Precor and mixing it together with Peloton’s ability to get online, be connected fitness, and then putting it into hotels.

Crystal: Well, this is a way to showcase that. When a person walks in, it’s like, oh, it’s all Peloton equipment. It’s a [00:17:00] Peloton-

Tom: Right …

Crystal: space. And so all of the equipment in this space is Peloton. There’s a Peloton dedicated wall. Like, it’s a whole thing, and it’s kind of a… It’s not kind of. It’s a win-win for Peloton because it’s all branded Peloton, but it’s also a win for the hotel, which in this case is a Hilton, because it shows that they have this dedicated wellness space, and part of that is Peloton.

Crystal: Yeah. So it’s, it’s winning on both sides.

Tom: And there’s so many people that have Peloton at this point. When they’re traveling, I’m sure that’s a selling point- Absolutely … of like, oh, this is the stuff I already use.

Crystal: Exactly and to be able… And you would think, you would… There’s a lot of people who criticize that, um, many of these hotel partnerships that have existed in the past, the Peloton bikes are, uh, equipment in general are not always working.

Crystal: The bikes tend- They don’t get- … to be the biggest issue.

Tom: They don’t get maintained well.

Crystal: They do not. And so I would like to think that by putting it in a space that’s branded that way, you probably have a person who’s the contact person for that space. You’re probably gonna get [00:18:00] more specialized attention- Right

Crystal: to maintaining the actual equipment.

Tom: That makes sense because if you’re, uh- A Holiday Inn that bought some Pelotons, you just got some Peloton bikes down there.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Where if it’s a Peloton’s- Well,

Crystal: and you have a rotating staff. Yeah. Like, it’s not like, it’s not like hospitality is an easy place to work your way up in.

Crystal: There’s-

Tom: Yeah …

Crystal: it’s pretty revolving door- Yeah … with hospitality. And so even if a person knew on the day they installed it how to fix it, six months later they may not.

Tom: Right.

Crystal: So yeah, this, this will, this should give people better access to maintained equipment.

Tom: Peloton also has now a Santa Monica residency.

Tom: So if you would like to swim out past the breakers- … and watch the world die.

Crystal: This is your time. It’s your

Tom: time to shine. It’s just a reference for my Gen X, alt rock fans.

Crystal: Oh. Okay. So-

Tom: Explain.

Crystal: I will. Peloton had an a- it’s another activation- Yeah … residency. What does that mean? It means that [00:19:00] they had a location set up where several instructors showed up and taught classes.

Crystal: Surprise the inst- Adrienne Williams class that was a 20-minute body weight strength is live in the class library. Every reason to assume all the other classes that were taught there will also show up in the library for people- Yeah … to take it home. There were… We had actually noticed the tipsters had noticed that there were cameras in the trees, ’cause it was like a canopy beautiful outdoor setting where all- Right

Crystal: these classes took place, and they were like, “Well, there’s a camera, and there’s a ca- why are all these cameras there?” That’s- Because they were doing it for the actual platform.

Tom: Those, those flock cameras are taking over.

Crystal: And people are excited about this because it… I think that there was a lot of confusion.

Crystal: When you say it’s at a hotel and it’s a residency, nobody knows what to do with that- Right … because we’re like, “Well, wait, is this another partnership? It… Does this mean that you’re, you’re gonna have actual classes? And if you have the classes, was it invite only?” It’s very confusing- Yeah

Crystal: where these people [00:20:00] came from. Uh, one of the theories is that it was all, um, influencers. Right. Totally could’ve been.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: I, I had some comments made this week, like I heard third party from questions from people and it’s like “Oh, Peloton shouldn’t get into that.” Guys, they’ve been into it. Like, it’s been-

Crystal: years. They’ve been doing influencer only events. I very clearly remember when the Tread pl- Yeah … the Tread first came out, that was a influencer only event.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: In fact, I was upset because I did not get invited because we didn’t live on the East Coast. Right. And they only invited influencer- Not that I consider myself an influencer, I just thought, “Well, wouldn’t that be an obvious-“

Tom: You, you talk a lot about Peloton.

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t like the word influencer at all, so it’s not really my jam. But, but I did think, “Well, if we talk about it, wouldn’t it make sense to include us in this, this, uh, this invite only event?”

Tom: Right. Especially because as they would come to find out, so many of those initial Tread sales went to people who already owned Peloton equipment.

Crystal: Yeah. And, yeah.

Tom: S- so, so, like, to get-

Crystal: And that’s exclusively [00:21:00] who they were-

Tom: Right …

Crystal: talking to.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: We’re not bitter. But anyway, th- this has been going on for years and years and years, so that’s dating back to at least 2019. Right. At that point, um, maybe even ’18, I can’t quite remember. But regardless, that is…

Crystal: That’s not new. And I don’t know if these people were ins- influencer only or not. I have no idea. I do think it was invite only. Maybe it was just people who locally live in Santa Monica.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: And the other question was, like, what makes it different if it’s a residency than any other hotel partnership?

Crystal: And I think in this particular case, they were trying out an event to use the classes online, and that may have even had something to do with who they chose as inviting- Right … like people that don’t get to take their classes in New York or, you know, maybe there was- Yeah … some kind of thought process behind that.

Crystal: I don’t know. It’s just a thought. So we could also, if you want, talk about this more in the bonus because I have some more thoughts about what this means for the West Coast [00:22:00] in general.

Tom: Okay. And then finally for this segment, uh, multiple Peloton instructors have been confirmed for Sea Wheeze-

Crystal: Yeah

Tom: which is for, uh, sailors who have asthma?

Crystal: No.

Tom: Oh.

Crystal: It is, uh, a marathon. It’s actually a half marathon, and it’s a very well-known one in Vancouver. And listen, it’s pretty much a Lululemon event.

Tom: Gotcha.

Crystal: I want to be clear about that. But, uh, there are a lot of Peloton instructors who are Lululemon ambassadors.

Crystal: So there’s going to be meet and greets that are going to have Adrian Williams, Dr. Chelsea Jackson Roberts, Eric Yeager, Hannah Frankson,

Tom: Coming up after this, we’ve got instructors in the, in the news. Aditi Shah attends a, a major creator event. We’ve got updates on Kirsten Ferguson and the Chicago Marathon, and who’s getting a special DJ John Michael treatment?

Tom: So stick around.

Tom: Aditi Shah attended [00:23:00] the TIME 100 Creators event.

Crystal: Yeah, it sounds like such a cool thing- Yeah … to be able to be part of. And, uh, she got to witness all of the cool stars that were part of this. I mean, being a TIME 100 Creator. I wonder what gets you invited versus being on the list. I’m j- uh, th- this is just me just being curious about how- Right

Crystal: people get invited to these things. For

Tom: sure.

Crystal: Because, like, I feel like so many of the instructors are considered really top-tier creators.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Crystal: And I, I don’t think any of them were on the list of top TIME 100 Creators.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: So how does one even get invited to it, then? You know? Yeah. Like, what, how do you…

Crystal: If you’re a creator, what’s the difference between being invited and being on the list? Right. You know? Like, where’s the line? I have so many questions- For

Tom: sure …

Crystal: about this. It’s just curiosity. But, um, what a cool thing to be part of. And, uh, I love seeing the step and repeat behind her, ’cause it’s like [00:24:00] Salesforce and Ally and Whaling Group.

Crystal: It’s like all these, like- … these amazing, huge cr- these huge benefactors. Right. It’s like, whoa, those are some big names up there.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: Very cool.

Tom: Camila Ramone’s latest single gets the DJ John Michael treatment.

Crystal: It did, yes. Abuela Tango remix. Uh, DJ John Michael did a remix of Camila’s n- uh, latest song, and, uh, her first DJ ride was with DJ John Michael, and they premiered it in the class.

Crystal: Oh, cool. How cool is that? Yeah. I really… Like, we were wondering why it’s taken so long if she hasn’t done a DJ John Michael, why is it now? You know, there were lots of questions- Right … around this, and so it’s really cool to see, oh, it was because this, he was part of it. They were working on a thing. He was working…

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very cool. And then don’t forget, just a little special plug for Camila, her Market Days concert is coming. She’s performing [00:25:00] live on August 8th in Chicago, and she is very excited about it. Oh,

Tom: interesting. I did not realize that.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: So it, uh, is-

Crystal: It’s part of this, whatever Market Days is.

Crystal: I don’t know what that is. Okay. But uh, uh, just my ignorance about music festivals. Right. I assume it’s just a music festival.

Tom: Gotcha. I was just curious, like, is it part of, you know… I, now I’m like, now I have all sorts of follow-up questions like, does she have a band? Is she playing to track? Like, how does this work?

Crystal: I cannot answer any of those questions. Yeah. You are going to need to go to Chicago on August 8th and find out.

Tom: That seems unlikely.

Crystal: Okay. Well, maybe you can follow her on social media- … and figure it out.

Tom: That also seems unlikely. It

Crystal: sure does, yeah. ‘

Tom: Cause I, I don’t really do the ‘Gram.

Crystal: And, uh, this single that he remixed was the 24/7 remix.

Crystal: I don’t know that I actually said that. That

Tom: sounds long. That’s, I don’t know that I have-

Crystal: It’s just a title …

Tom: I don’t have time-

Crystal: It’s just a title …

Tom: for, I th- I thought Stairway to Heaven was long. That’s crazy, Camila. Reign it in.

Crystal: Oh, what a, what a special class. I love these kind of, the, when these [00:26:00] things come together.

Crystal: DJ John Michael doing his really cool thing remixing a song, Camila getting to show off her talents and her song and her class. It’s just very cool. Love the synergy.

Tom: Kirsten Ferguson has confirmed her Chicago Marathon attendance

Crystal: She is and not just attendance, participation. That’s important because-

Tom: Okay, I- in my head, attendance meant participation.

Tom: ‘Cause I was like, “Why would you go to a marathon if you’re not participating?” Then I’m like, “Oh wait, I did.”

Crystal: Exactly.

Tom: I did.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: So,

Crystal: okay. Yeah. You attended. I attended. I participated. That’s fair. Um, yeah, it’s really cool because, uh, Kirsten, I actually took a class with her this week, and I, when I say actually, it was a boot camp, so really the actually is that I was taking a boot camp.

Crystal: I don’t do that very often. Yeah. But I needed a short class that hit cardio and strength. Boot camp, that’ll do it.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: Happened to be with Kirsten, and she talked about that she’s like, “You need to do hard things. You need to do scary things.” And she’s like, “I signed up for the New York City [00:27:00] Marathon several years ago, and I was terrified to do it.

Crystal: I didn’t wanna even put it out there in the universe that I was doing it.”

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: She’s like, “And then I did it.” And she’s like, “I said I would never do it again, and now I’m doing the Chicago Marathon.” And she was like, “What have I done?” But it’s like you need those scary things- Yeah … to, to live for. I mean, life, you get one life.

Crystal: That’s what I believe. I mean, I think there are people that do believe that you get more than one.

Tom: Sure.

Crystal: But I believe that you get one, and uh, I believe- Apologies

Tom: to our Hindu listeners.

Crystal: Yeah … I believe that you need to live it to the fullest. Like, you can, you can be gone at any point in time, and uh, you don’t know what tomorrow brings, so- For sure

Crystal: like do the things. Yeah. Do the things that are fun, uh, that are hard, that are scary. And I loved her excitement about this, and also, just a little shout-out to her new haircut because she’s really rocking it. She’s got short hair. Listen, I know that doesn’t sound like a big deal, but- Yeah … I think the woman is in love right now, and it shows.

Crystal: Gotcha. Like, she is just glowing. She’s not going [00:28:00] on and on about it. We don’t have some mystery man that’s off in the corner that she’s only showing periodically with stickers over his face or anything like that. Sh- I just, I sense, the pictures that she does show and the stories that she- she is in love, and she is happy as hell, and I love seeing that for her.

Tom: Well, good for her.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: And uh, I’m in solidarity with the short hair.

Crystal: You are. I am.

Tom: It,

Crystal: hers looks a little different.

Tom: I, for her sake, I hope so.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: But you know, if that’s what you like. She could probably pull it off better than I am. So Charlotte Wiedenbach had, uh, some thoughts and advice on the VO2 max, and so I, because of this, I had to type VO2 max- Oh

Tom: multiple times. So my que- Are you

Crystal: getting-

Tom: My question is the O.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Is it the letter O or the number zero?

Crystal: It’s the letter O.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: Because it’s- Like

Tom: oxygen? …

Crystal: oxygen.

Tom: Okay. ‘

Crystal: Cause that, that’s literally what you’re measuring.

Tom: That’s what I thought-

Crystal: Yeah …

Tom: but then I was-

Crystal: Volume of oxygen, so it’s like the [00:29:00] O2 is the oxygen.

Tom: Gotcha.

Crystal: And so volume- oxygen

Tom: I was just, I was second-guessing myself

Crystal: I totally get it. Yeah. I, I really do. But yes, it is. And she talks about the fact that she tests her VO2 max every year, and she is very open about the fact is, like, this is not the most important health factor. But she finds it useful for how her tracking, how she’s able to see how her body is adapting over time.

Crystal: So she talked about what it measures and how it earns a place in your long-term fitness plan. And over in the bonus, we are gonna talk more about how you can use it for your own Peloton journey.

Tom: Yeah, ’cause I always think of it as, as something for, like, elite athletes. No. Does it really do a lot for just- I mean, it

Crystal: can

Tom: regular folks?

Crystal: But yes, it is for everyone-

Tom: Okay …

Crystal: should you wish to partake.

Tom: Okay. Well, coming up after this, we’ve got content for you. We’re gonna talk the TCO Top 5 and, uh, some MTV classes that you [00:30:00] might wanna check out, and more, so stick around.

Tom: It is time for the TCO top five. You have told us your favorite classes, and we have listened to some of you

Crystal: The top five

Tom: The, the top five of you. Honestly, if- So everyone else came in at six.

Crystal: Don’t feel bad Listen, if you wanna be part of the top five, I need you to really put in some effort on these nominations, because that’s become the new thing.

Tom: We get a lot… It’s nice.

Crystal: It’s, it is really nice. I love seeing the enthusiasm- Yeah … and I love seeing across the board where people’s heads are at. Like, it’s really neat. Second week in a row, as you pointed out yesterday, we have all women coaches that were nominated. It’s

Tom: kind of offensive.

Crystal: No. No.

Tom: Fight the matriarchy. That’s what I say.

Crystal: You are gonna be very lonely- … in all senses.

Tom: Number one.

Crystal: Yeah. So-

Tom: Your [00:31:00] f- I didn’t say it.

Crystal: Oh.

Tom: Your favorite walk. There you go.

Crystal: Okay.

Tom: We’ve got a rhythm.

Crystal: Kirsten Ferguson- Quit

Tom: disrupting the rhythm …

Crystal: Kirsten Ferguson- Why do you

Tom: keep doing

Crystal: that? … taught the class- … on July 22nd.

Crystal: It was a 30-minute intention-setting walk, and Karen Smith nominated this class. She said, “I broke my back in two places in July after being thrown for a, from a horse.” Goodness, I’m so sorry to hear that, Karen.

Tom: Thrown from a horse?

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah, I mean- Watch

Tom: out …

Crystal: that’s, that sounds really traumatically painful.

Crystal: It

Tom: does.

Crystal: Prior to that, Karen had been loving Hiit+ and had been focusing on building strength at 55, and now all she can do is walk until the vertebrae heal. I know it’s hard. I so feel that. She feels like she has lost all the progress that she had made, and she was feeling very low, but this walk spoke to her.

Crystal: It helped her focus on what she can still do, and that her future self will overcome this setback. It was just what Karen needed. She will continue to play that class on repeat on my down days as she walks through [00:32:00] recovery. This injury has really impressed upon me that we care for our bodies because we can, because we get to.

Crystal: Having that ability taken away in an instant has given me new perspective that I will carry with me forever. I feel that so much.

Tom: Character actor Stephen Tobolowsky-

Crystal: Mm-hmm …

Tom: who most people… Well, he, he gets recognized. He’s one of those actors, if you s- saw him, you’d instantly know who he is. But, like, everyone kind of instantly knows him from something different- Yes

Tom: because he’s been in so many things.

Crystal: Yes. I only know him because you talk about him all the time.

Tom: I love Stephen Tobolowsky. I know

Crystal: you do.

Tom: I have a man crush on Stephen Tobolowsky. And most people probably recognize him as Ned Ryerson from Groundhog’s Day.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: That’s probably his most prominent role.

Tom: He has a wonderful podcast called The Tobolowsky Files. There’s only, like, 80 episodes. But they’re very well thought out and crafted, and he just tells stories from his life, and he has had a fascinating life, and he is a gifted storyteller. And he has a riveting story with so many twists and turns about being thrown from a horse.

Crystal: Oh.

Tom: And, uh, and how it almost killed him, and [00:33:00] then it inadvertently saves his life, and it’s- Fascinating. And it’s relatively early in the run. I think it’s maybe episode eight or nine. If you scroll and read the descriptions, you can probably… But it’s totally worth seeking out. Actually, that whole podcast is great, just the stories he tells, uh, of his, of his life.

Tom: He is absolutely fascinating. So anyway, I heard thrown from a horse, and my first thought was Steven Tobolowsky.

Crystal: I totally get it.

Tom: So, Number two Favorite lower body strength class.

Crystal: Once again, Rebecca Kennedy is being nominated because everyone is loving her classes. This was a 45-minute highlight plus lower body.

Crystal: It was week five/six, day one. And Sandra Bloom said, “What a class. I have not lifted this heavy ever. The music was on point, and it did not feel like 45 minutes. I worked so hard, and I know I will be feeling this for days.” That is quite the nomination.

Tom: Yeah. Number three, your favorite strength class.

Crystal: Ladies are on a strength bender, and I am here for it. Next up, we [00:34:00] have Tunde with a 20-minute 2000 arms and shoulder strength she taught on August 2nd. Kate Govnik said, “Tunde is always good for an awesome strength class. I am sore in my upper back and today and in the best way. The bicep blaster at the end was something else.

Crystal: The playlist was super fun, too. A cool mix of Beyoncé, Christina Aguilera, Britney, et cetera.”

Tom: 2000 arms. How do they fit a thousand people in the studio?

Crystal: Just pack them in.

Tom: Yeah. Uh, number four, your favorite live DJ ride. I feel like I know what this one will be.

Crystal: What do you think it’s gonna be?

Tom: The one we already talked about.

Crystal: That’s right. Yeah. It is. Camila had her first ever DJ ride with DJ John Michael on July 31st, and we had two nominations for this class. Uh, Meryl Kester Co- Colobron, I’m sorry if I didn’t get it right. Uh, she said or said, “The playlist was amazing, and the dynamic between Camila and Juan Miguel was so genuine, fun, lively.

Crystal: I couldn’t believe how fast it went. At the same time, I hit my highest output in [00:35:00] three years. I also love her music.”

Tom: And finally, the class so difficult you dare not stack it. We call it an unstackable, and now you do as well. It’s your favorite run/walk.

Crystal: Yeah. A 60-minute walk plus run taught by Jess Sims on July 27th.

Crystal: You hear walk plus run, and you think, “It can’t be that bad.” Well, Julie Benson says, “This was not a walk. This was a hike that began with a 12% incline with a pyramid format. The run portions were also at an incline the entire time. However, the music was amazing, and Jess reminds you, you don’t get to… You don’t have to, you get to do this.”

Crystal: It is the you get to crew- Yeah … after all. Love that.

Tom: That sounds like a lot.

Crystal: It does sound like a lot. Yeah that’s why we call it an unstackable.

Tom: Absolutely. So moving into things that perhaps are stackable.

Crystal: Yeah.

Tom: Emma Lovewell celebrated MTV’s 45th anniversary, [00:36:00] celebrating eight years of wonderful music.

Crystal: You only get the first eight years.

Tom: Yeah, just the first-

Crystal: That’s the first eight.

Tom: Just the first

Crystal: eight.

Tom: Then after that, you age out and it sucks. And you’re like, “Kids today.”

Crystal: Well, Emma Lovell taught this class on August 1st. It was a 30-minute ’80s ride. As you said, she was, uh, she was giving kudos to 45 years of MTV.

Crystal: Her dad joined the studio ride. As far as I know, the first time her dad has ever joined a studio ride. And, uh, that was pretty special as well. It was an iconic playlist, uh, and I was very excited about it. Uh, Sledgehammer, Video Killed the Radio Star, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, Take On Me, Jump, Like a Prayer, Sweet Child O’ Mine, and Every Breath You Take.

Crystal: I mean, that is just, that’s just some awesome ’80s songs right there.

Tom: That’s peak MTV.

Crystal: It really is.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: So there’s a fun little twist. Th- this is an amazing story all on its own, just period, full stop.

Tom: She does a boot camp where it’s VH1?

Crystal: No.

Tom: Oh.

Crystal: Get this. Okay. This is so funny. We [00:37:00] posted about this.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Crystal: And I was so excited. We all were. And, uh, we were posting about it. There’s a article. Like, we are just thrilled.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: Susie Chan chimes in and she says, “Guys, I, I did a class back in February of, that it was also celebrating the MTV whenever it went off the air here in the UK, in Europe, because it’s no longer on the air- Oh, that’s

Tom: right

Crystal: at all.” That’s right. And I was like, “What? How did we miss this?” So back on February 7th, there is another MTV ride, and it’s by Su- it’s actually a run, and it’s by Susie Chan, and it’s also an amazing playlist. So I think you should stack them, and I think you should stack them back to back. There you go. So I, this is my suggestion.

Crystal: So we now have an article for Susie Chan’s hidden gems, because that is so cool.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: I don’t know how we missed that one, but this is why it’s so great when people nominate things, because this is how we find out about these awesome classes.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: So cool.

Tom: And, uh, not to be outdone, over on Echelon, they [00:38:00] have a special Friday night videos ride.

Tom: So enjoy that.

Crystal: Yeah, you do that.

Tom: This is not MTV related.

Crystal: No.

Tom: But you might think it is.

Crystal: No, but it’s true. I’d forgotten about that segment.

Tom: Because it’s Marcel Dinkins’ 120-minute run, not 120 minutes run- … which would be different.

Crystal: Well, it’s a 120-minute long run, so kinda is. Well,

Tom: yes.

Crystal: But- But I know, that was the name of the segment.

Crystal: Yeah. I’m teasing you. Um, but yeah, this is, uh… This just dropped. Like, no… There was no forewarning.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: And this is the first time we’ve ever had a two-hour run from Marcel. Just boop, there you go, guys. Yeah,

Tom: surprise.

Crystal: There was no big announcement. There was no lead-up of, “I’ve got something special for y’all.”

Crystal: Like, nope, just surprise.

Tom: Did Matt Penfield st- dro- drop by the studio?

Crystal: No.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: No. But, uh, I thought this was really cool. She also had a members’ choice… I guess there was a slight tease because it was a members’ choice Create the Playlist, so people submitted songs to be included [00:39:00] in it. But it in no way indicated that it was going to be part of this 120-minute long run.

Crystal: By the way, it’s an outdoor run, so, like, you can take this outside- Ah … and also do part of your Great Outdoors challenge, if that works for you, in the heat wherever you may live.

Tom: Matt Wilpers ha- bringing back the Power Zone Max power profile.

Crystal: I thought this was the first one, but apparently this is the second one. We talked about this a few weeks ago-

Tom: Uh-huh …

Crystal: where Matt is bringing a power profile. It’s another way to figure out your FTP for power zone.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: Instead of doing, like, a 20-minute ride where you go as hard as you can during that- Mm

Crystal: entire 20 minutes, this has you kind of max out all of your zones across the whole class. But you do it a little at a time instead of one.

Tom: Gotcha.

Crystal: So this is a- ‘Cause a lot

Tom: of people are scared to death of that FTP.

Crystal: They are. Yeah. They are. I don’t know. Honestly, 20 [00:40:00] minutes of misery kinda sounds better than s- 45 minutes of also misery.

Tom: Of, of discomfort.

Crystal: Yes.

Tom: Right? Yeah. Just rip the Band-Aid off and get it over with.

Crystal: I think that might be easier. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I haven’t tried it, so I could be very wrong. I don’t know. And I suspect everybody has a different opinion about this depending on how your body just reacts to the stress.

Crystal: Yeah. But at any rate people are loving these classes, loving that there is a, a way to calculate it and you’re getting a whole profile instead of just the FTP.

Tom: If you’re the sort that doesn’t wanna jump in a pool and you’d rather slowly wade in, here you go.

Crystal: Although that one in Mexico you never would’ve gotten in if you hadn’t just jumped in.

Tom: Which one’s that?

Crystal: When we were in the cenote.

Tom: Oh, yeah.

Crystal: Yeah, you would have never gotten in. Yeah.

Tom: I think that water sent me into shock.

Crystal: A little bit.

Tom: Yeah, like I was having issues. It was so cold. It

Crystal: was cold. It was really hot that day.

Tom: For sure.

Tom: Aditi Shah has seven days to better sleep

Crystal: On [00:41:00] breathwork

Tom: On breathwor- breathwork.

Crystal: Uh, so it’s a brand-new program, and, uh, it just, it just got announced this week. Here’s the thing I wanted to tell people. I was experiencing some issues with breathwork, so I reached out to Peloton because the classes wouldn’t play.

Crystal: Mm-hmm. And I’ve had a few other people tell me this as well, so that’s why I’m sharing this. Right,

Tom: right.

Crystal: If you go, you can actually, if you have an iOS device, I don’t know if this works on Android, I have no idea, there’s directions on the FAQ.

Tom: Probably not.

Crystal: But the idea being that you clear out your history, you close out, you log out completely of breathwork, and then you close out the Safari history-

Tom: Okay

Crystal: for the apps only, uh, for the Safari app. DM me if you have questions about this, but if your classes won’t play, I can send you to the right place and help you with it. At any rate, my classes all play again, yay. And I love that the, they are including all of these really cool breathwork and meditation programs on the breathwork app.

Crystal: I really like that app, and [00:42:00] I use it at least once a day, sometimes twice a day.

Tom: Yeah.

Crystal: I really enjoy it, and I hope, I hope there’s other people that are enjoying it as much as I am.

Tom: I mean, it’s, you ar- you already got it.

Crystal: Right.

Tom: You

Crystal: already paid for it. It’s part of your membership. Why not?

Tom: Might as, might as well check it out if nothing else.

Crystal: Absolutely.

Tom: Ally Love, joining Vibe and Flow.

Crystal: Yeah, so Chelsea has been doing these classes for, what, a year and a half now? Yeah. And she has different instructors come in, and they have kind of a different theme for each one. And, uh, one of them that was recent was the one that Maddie joined, and it was for Broadway.

Tom: Oh, okay.

Crystal: How fun.

Tom: Makes sense.

Crystal: And this was for a feel-good yoga session because, you know- ‘

Tom: Cause Broadway doesn’t make you feel good? I am outraged. Uh,

Crystal: so, yeah, this is, this took place… What day was this? I’m sorry, it will be taking place Sunday, August 16th, 9:30 AM Eastern, and you will be able to take it live, so pretty cool.

Tom: Yeah. Bex [00:43:00] Gentry has a Norwegian four-by-four method tread series.

Crystal: So Norwegian four-by-four is a special training type.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: Um, so it’s a special way that you structure your run, and what she has done is she has taken four different intervals classes that are 60 minutes long, and she has incorporated this training so that you are progressing. We have captured all of those classes, so we have it in a handy article for you.

Crystal: You know which ones they are, ’cause they’re not labeled this way. Oh,

Tom: okay.

Crystal: Uh, she talks about it on the class, but it’s not always e- always easy to find if you don’t know the dates and everything. For

Tom: sure.

Crystal: And, uh, we have it all listed out for you and the benefits of the four-by-four Norwegian training, so we’ve got that out for you as well.

Tom: I feel like suddenly going on a cruise as we transition from Norwegian to Hannah Frankson’s UK Carnival Celebration ride. H- are there any cruise lines we’re not mes- mentioning on this episode? This is the

Crystal: Carnivale.

Tom: Carnivale.

Crystal: And, uh, Hannah Frankson has done one of these [00:44:00] rides every year for the last, like, four or five years.

Crystal: Yeah. However long she’s been there, ’cause it flows by so quickly. It does. I can’t keep track.

Tom: Does it vibe and flow by?

Crystal: It does not.

Tom: Okay.

Crystal: But Hannah Frankson has confirmed she will be teaching one this year, and I believe the date was August 29th. We are gonna be seeing that.

Tom: Awesome.

Tom: our August Birthday-a-palooza continues. We’ve got three this week. Whoo. Which that’s nothing. This is the calm before the storm. Next week we have three on one day.

Crystal: Oh, goodness.

Tom: Yeah. So we have Olivia Amato on August 8th, Christine Dericalay on August 11th, and Rebecca Kennedy on August 13th, so happy birthday.

Crystal: Happy birthday. I love it.

Tom: So that brings this episode to a close. Until next week, where can people find you?

Crystal: People can find me on Facebook at facebook.com/crystaldokeefe. They can find me on Threads, BlueSky, Instagram, and the Peloton Leaderboard @clipoutcrystal.

Tom: And you can find me on Threads and BlueSky @tomokeefe Jr.,

Tom: or on Facebook at [00:45:00] facebook.com/tomokeefe. You can find the show online at facebook.com/theclipout. While you’re there, like the page, join the group, and of course, don’t forget our Patreon. Tons more stuff going on over there if you wanna check it out. That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in, and until next time, keep pedaling.

Crystal: And running.

Tom: And rowing.

Crystal: Bye.

Tom: Bye.

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