335. Peloton Adds THREE New Power Zone Instructors Plus Our Interview With David Kipper

TCO 335 | Peloton


  • Peloton adds three new PZ instructors.
  • Peloton On Tour: London lineup announced.
  • Login/Homescreen gets a facelift.
  • Black Friday sales are here! Tread+ preorder is coming.
  • Peloton partners with AmEx.
  • Peloton expands commercial business.
  • Jenn – How to increase motivation.
  • Robin Arzon teases her return.
  • Ben & Leanne teaming up on the bike.
  • Tunde ran the NYC Marathon.
  • And got a much-needed lift from a Peloton member.
  • Benny Adami’s 1st ever English-language ride.
  • The latest artist series features DMX. TCO Top Five.
  • Peloton announces NYC 5 Borough Outdoor Runs.
  • Arms with Tunde now available in German.
  • This week at Peloton.
  • Birthdays –  Aditi Shah (11/10)

All this plus part one of our interview with David Kipper!

Watch the episode here


Listen to the podcast here


Peloton Adds THREE New Power Zone Instructors Plus Our Interview With David Kipper

It is a crazy busy week. I know we’ve been switching this format where we’re trying to tighten up the show, keep it shorter and tighter, and then the overflow ends up in the bonus episode The Clipped Out that you can get on Patreon.com/TheClipOut for $5 a month, all you can eat. You get all the things. You get ad-free episodes. You get the bonus content. If we get it early, you get it early, or like last week, if we get it late, you get it late. That’s the thing that happens.

Darn earnings call, throwing everything for a little bit.

I feel bad for the people who signed up. We have so many people who signed up. They’re like, “They get it early.” They’re like, “Did I do something wrong? It’s 8:00 and I don’t see an episode. This sucks.”

On that note, I have discovered a glitch within Patreon. For those of you who have signed up for a seven-day free trial, check this out. The seventh day is still technically free even though it says it’s your first paid day. Until they charge you, there is this 12-hour period where you can’t access anything. Not the free stuff and not the paid stuff. You get nothing for 12 hours.

That’s so weird.

It is so bizarre. It’s like like clockwork. I get a notification that somebody signed up. They went into the paid mode and then five minutes later, I got a notification from somebody going, “Why can’t I see anything?” I asked Patreon and they didn’t even understand my question. I was like, “I’ve already established this is the pattern. We’re going to deal with this.” It’s twelve hours of annoying, then it’s back to normal.

It’s a way to remind you how nice it is to have all the things. We take them away for a little bit and you miss them? You’re like, “Thank God, it’s back. What a delight.”

The book club is always free over at Patreon.

Somebody asked me about the book club because they did the seven-day trial and they decided to not stick around which is fine.

It’s totally fine. We’re not mad at you.

We still like you. They were like, “Does this mean I can’t make it to the book club?” We’re like, “No, the book club is totally free for anybody.” You have to join Patreon, but we don’t take your credit card number. We’re not taking credit card numbers, Patreon does but you don’t have to give them a credit card number. You can join the free level, and there’s even a post from Kim Keith Miller so you can see, if you’re watching YouTube, I’m not making this up and making it sound organic.

She was like, “I exhaust my seven-day free trial. Can I still get this?” I was like, “It is always free.” All you have to do is go to Patreon.com/TheClipOut and click Join Community. The cool part is on November 14th, we’re going to have our next book club meeting. We are going to be discussing Don’t Forget to Write by fellow Pelotonian Sara Goodman Confino, and she’s going to join us.

That will be fun.

I am super looking forward to this. This was a great book and I enjoyed it.

It was a good read. I know I’m not exactly the target demo but I did enjoy it.

I’m glad.

We should also remind people that our guest for this episode is Dr. David Kipper. If that name sounds familiar to you or if you’re on YouTube and you’re looking at your screen and that face looks familiar to you, he’s been in a ton of things. He was one of the first doctors in the world to switch to a concierge model of being a doctor, which means you pay him a flat rate and he’s always on call for you, big or small.

That’s something that maybe people with a little bit more means might partake in. He has a pretty solid celebrity roster which we do not dig into because of HIPAA. If you recognize his face in your trying to place it it is because most likely he did testify at the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial. He also got his own podcast. He had his own radio show for years. He’s going to talk about that.

He’s super fun and nice.

On that note, it’s something we haven’t done in a long time in years, this interview is a two-parter. That’s also part of our effort to keep the show shorter, but we’re supposed to talk to him for twenty minutes. We ended up talking to him for closer to an hour. We decided to break it up into chunks. You’re going to get half this week. You’re going to get half next week.

What a delight he is. You will enjoy this conversation.

For sure. Hopefully, you stick around and tune in to that as well. In addition to that, what pray tell can they expect for this episode?

We have so much to cover. The latest tour stop. We have all the details for London. We have a recap of the New York City Marathon. There are updates to the login screen. We’re going to talk about what’s going on with the Tread+, partnerships aplenty. Whatever Peloton is expanding to now, we have all of that. We also have a visit from Dr. Jenn. She’s going to talk about how to increase your motivation. We have some In The News from instructors. We’re going to keep it brief, and some fun content updates as well.

Awesome. Before we get to all that, shameless plugs. Don’t forget, we’re available on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Google Podcasts. Wherever you find a podcast, you can find us. While you’re there, be sure and follow us so you never miss an episode. Maybe leave us a review. It’s super helpful. We’ll greatly appreciate it. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/TheClipOut. While you’re there, like the page, join the group. It’s a great way to stay up to date on things throughout the week.

If you would like to engage with this even more, you can sign up for Patreon at Patreon.com/TheClipOut. There are free levels where you get things like access to the book club or if you give us $5 a month, you get all sorts of bonus content like The Clipped Out. We’ll be talking about an update on the Michigan partnership and how that’s playing out. We talk about how you can now use two memberships on the same bike. We talk about lots of extra instructor news because there is so much.

Also an update on the Canada clothing debacle.

All of that will live over there. You also get ad-free episodes and if we have an episode early, you have an episode early. Also, don’t forget, you can watch these episodes on YouTube at YouTube.com/TheClipOut. You can sign up for our newsletter at TheClipOut.com, where we send you weekly reminders of the episode. Sometimes we send out fun surveys, which were very helpful and caused a slight tweak to the show, and cheaper Patreon levels. That actually works. There’s all that. Let’s dig in. Shall we?

We shall.

We have not one, not two, but three new Power Zone instructors.

We all have thought forever that Hannah Frankson is going to be a new Power Zone instructor.

It’s all I’ve thought about.

There are some people. That is probably true, but I did not guess that Tunde is going to be a new Power Zone instructor and Charlotte, the German instructor. That’s the second Power Zone instructor who’s going to be teaching in German, which is awesome. That’s going to add another Power Zone instructor to the UK roster, and then it’s nice to have a little female representation over here in the US. We have Christine and Olivia who currently teach Power Zone instructors, but it’s nice to have a third because then there will be the three guys and the three girls.

Let me be the first to coin a phrase for when Tunde has a class. It’s Power Zone day. That’s going to be a thing but remember who said it first right here.

Tunded does not have the same ring as Wilpersed. Each of these ladies will be getting their very own debut class. It kicks off with Hannah Frankson coming up on the 13th, and then Charlotte is going to be on the 21st, and Tunde will be kicking hers off on November 26th.

Let me ask you this. What do you think this means in terms of other Power Zone instructors? Do you think this means you will be seeing the other Power Zone instructors less with the exception of Matt Wilpers, or do you think this means you will see even more Power Zone content?

I think you will see even more Power Zone content. We talked about in the earnings call that Peloton has been talking about how they are finally seeing data on wanting longer in-classes. I was talking to Stacey Revere before this because she was super excited about this announcement. She was saying to me that she noticed they are doing longer Power Zone classes. We recently had our first-ever two-hour Power Zone class. I suspect they are bringing more people on board to spread that out. These instructors can only work workout so many hours a week, and don’t forget that Matt teaches on the rower. He teaches on the tread so they need to be able to spread that out. It makes sense to me. That’s what I think.

That makes total sense. I was curious if there’s any more content or the same content but spread over more instructors.

It’s leaning toward the content.

That’s great. After we recorded last week, Peloton On Tour London was announced. We have the official lineup, and let’s pound through it.

First of all, fifteen instructors are going to be at this one. From the London side of things, we’re going to have Jermain, Joslyn, Ben, Brad, Hannah, Sam, Leanne, Susie, and Hosky. On the US side, we’re going to have Olivia, Robin Ally, Alex, Becs, and Emma all coming to London.

I’m adding that up. I feel like you missed someone who will be in attendance.

I was about to get to that. I say we because you and I are going to London

This is my first time ever going to Europe.

It is mine as well. I’m so excited.

My goal is to relive every scene from National Lampoon’s European Vacation.

I don’t want to do that.

I want to get stuck in the circle around Big Ben and have a panic attack. I want to hit Eric Idle with my car. I want to go on a pig-based game show. I want to go to Oktoberfest and get in a fistfight.

Sydney and I are going to be watching while you do all those things, but we’re going to be doing lots of fun things instead.

I think what I described is fun, but we are going to be at the London On Tour. You will have boots on the ground at every one of these events. Our final boots will be you. I would say us but nobody wants my reports on Peloton from London. I’m like, “There’s another person in leggings.”

Here’s what I’m asking from anybody in the UK who tunes in to the show. What we are thinking is on Saturday, before the wrap-up party, what if you and I get together with all the people who want to join us in London and have a little Clip Out pregaming before the big party. What do you think?

That sounds like a plan. I feel like they have a British name for a get-together.

They probably do, like a do.

A tally-do

Let’s bang on or something. In all seriousness, if anybody has any ideas on where we can hold this thing or how to do that, let me know and reach out.

We’re dumb Americans. We’ll be over there behind your Square Plaza. That sounds British, and be like, “Do you guys have an Applebee’s?

I am so excited. We are going to have so much fun. You’re going to get so tired of seeing all of our posts because we’re going to do all the touristy things. All of them.

I’ve already booked Hyde Park. We’ve already booked Harry Potter, not as a guest but to do the tour. I couldn’t believe his metrics because he has some magic. It doesn’t seem fair for everyone else. We’re going to do a walking tour of Charles Dickens’s things.

People have told me that we need to do some kind of tea room. Honestly, I don’t understand why. I don’t get the tea room thing. I’m not saying we won’t do it. Explain to me what that means. Do we sit down and drink tea? We don’t drink tea. Would we stare at each other? How does this work?

I don’t like crumpets.

You do like treats and I bet they have pastries.

You make me sound like a puppy.

You do have a lot in common with puppies.

Anyway, this is very exciting. I’m super excited about this. I’ve never been to Europe. I’ve never been to London, which makes sense because London is in Europe.

Do you know what I’m most excited about going to London?

What’s that?

I so hope I get to find a way to meet Susie Chan.

I hope I get to find a way to meet Benny Hill. Is he still around with us? I don’t know. Never mind.

We’ll have to find somebody else for you to meet. Maybe Hosky.

How about a Beatle?

That could be tough.

Don’t they issue you a Beatle when you show up?

I don’t think so. You said you didn’t want to go to Liverpool.

Liverpool is a long drive. Isn’t it?

I have no idea.

We have no frame of reference. Everything is 30 minutes outside of London, which is not true, but we’re dumb Americans.

It is the same thing we feel about New York. I can’t wait to get some perspective on it.

The Login/Homescreen got a cosmetic lift.

It sure did. Check this out. Going forward, it’s going to have this beautiful blue screen when you go to Login. Also, they have changed the font and moved your leaderboard down to the bottom of the screen.

That’s where my leaderboard would have been anyway.

Facts. That’s where mine is. Whenever you log in and you see your different classes, they have now shown a little live emblem on the class that is live right now. It’s easy to find. I thought the most interesting thing out of this is that Joe Vogli, one of our fabulous listeners, was telling me that she thinks these changes could specifically have something to do with being more inclusive. For example, she told me that blue is the best color for people who are colorblind. Perhaps they made it a nice faded blue background that has a blue fade on it for people who are color blind. She said that she’s pretty sure that the font that they changed it to is the best font for people who have dyslexia.

I don’t know that it’s the best font. All I know is what I’ve read, but I have read that the best font is Comic Sans. The article was all about how people love to shit on Comic Sans and that it’s an ugly font, but they said that a lot of people select Comic Sans if they have dyslexia because for whatever reason that is easier for their brain to process. They were like, “Before you start trashing somebody that does everything in Comic Sans, there could be a medical reason as to why they’re doing it.” I’m sure there are other fonts that are also easier than others. I always found it fascinating that there could actually be a medical purpose to Comic Sans.

Joe made it sound like all the things you said, this particular font did. She also said it was close to it. She wasn’t sure if it was that specific font.

It seems like there is more than one font that could achieve that, but there are definitely a finite number of fonts that can achieve it.

I hope that is the reason and it’s super exciting to see something fresh and new.

Even if it’s not the reason, I think we should all rejoice in the fact that there might have been an accident with Peloton that was a happy one. They accidentally did something that made things more accessible. Maybe they did it on purpose but if not, great.

It was a good one.

You landed there anyway.

I also wanted to say that this definitely is on the bike and the tread. I think it’s rolling out slowly because some people had it on the bike and not the tread. Some people had it on both. As of yesterday, nobody had it on the row yet. That doesn’t mean it’s not coming. My guess is it will be within the week. I’m sure there will be more updates to come.

Like Kenny Wayne Shepherd, it’s Blue on Black. We’re transitioning our conversation about Black Friday Sales, which have been announced for Peloton.

They are at the deepest discounts that we’ve ever seen for the original bike, actually I think it might be the Bike+. I can’t remember which is which, but they are up to $700 off. That’s the cheapest we’ve ever seen for the Bike+. That’s on the package that has all of the accessories. You have to go in and look, but they’re all rolled out. The Guide is back down to $95, the cheapest that we’ve ever seen when they had the latest Prime Days. They’re back to that now. Don’t forget that Peloton had said earlier that they’re going to price match on their own website through the end of November. I guess nobody needs to know that anymore.

Now that you know the prices, you’re good to go.

They are out and have good deals on everything, so get to shopping.

Tread+ will soon be available for pre-order.

It’s up on the site. You can now see it and you will be able to start placing your order in December for that early January release. Remember, these are very limited quantities. It is only what is in stock now. They don’t have this big massive build coming.

They have not fired the machine back up just yet.

If you want it, you better grab it. I also got an email saying that for my Tread+, they are going to be contacting me very soon to set up the rear guard being put on the back of my Tread+. We will see. Hopefully, it’s awesome.

Peloton and American Express have struck up a partnership.

This is for the app specifically. If you have the app membership and you spend $12, you can get $12 back, up to two times. In other words, if you have the app version and you spend let’s say $24 a month, you can get $12 of that back each month. You get two.

You have to move your membership recurring payment to your AMEX card. Is that how that works?

I guess so.

I’ve never done something like that so I don’t know.

We can’t do it anyway because we have the all-access app. This is just for the app membership.

Peloton has expanded its commercial business.

It now includes the rower and the Bike+ and they are expanding their corporate wellness benefits as well.

I love seeing that increase.

It sounded like on the earnings call, I think there’s going to be a big announcement soon with a new customer. They didn’t say who but it sounds big.

Coming up after this, we’re going to talk to Dr. Jenn. She’s going to have tips on how to increase your motivation because sometimes we all need some increased motivation.

Joining us once again is Dr. Jenn Mann, a licensed marriage, family and child therapist, and sports psychology consultant. She was a five-year national team member in rhythmic gymnastics and sports psychology for USA Gymnastics. It’s Dr. Jenn.


We’re so glad to have you back. I have a question that is more general. I have noticed that all people have different levels of motivation. Thinking about this from the perspective of what makes us get up and do the things we say we want to do, are there concrete steps that people can take to increase their motivation or to keep it up once they’ve decided to do something?

First of all, you have to look at what motivates you. Since we’re on The Clip Out, let’s put it in terms of a Peloton workout. Why is it that you’re doing your Peloton workout? One of the biggest mistakes people make about motivation is the things that cannot be controlled. For example, one of my least favorite motivators for someone is, “I want to workout to lose weight.”

We cannot control what our body does and how it responds to our workout. What we can control is how often we workout and how we workout. Typically, if we do certain things, we get stronger. Typically, if we do certain things, our endurance improves. I like process-oriented goals that allow us to get the wins at the end. For example, if you say, “I’m going to do Emma’s crusher core program and I’m going to take every class and complete it,” great. I love that. It’s process-oriented. You can control that, or you make a workout plan and you stick to that. That’s great.

One of the biggest things that people do when it comes to mistakes about motivation is they set goals that are too high, and then they get mad at themselves for not being motivated. We tend to be most motivated when we believe in ourselves. If you make small manageable goals and you achieve the goal, you go, “I’m someone who keeps her promise to herself,” and that’s actually motivating because you’re like, “I want to maintain that belief about myself and that identity as someone who keeps their commitment to themselves.”

I caution people that if you’re feeling unmotivated, you want to look at, “Do I have the right program? Are my goals in line with the level that I’m at?” If they are not, consult with a professional like Crystal. She’s trained in knowing how to help someone put together a program at their level and that will be enjoyable.

Sometimes we get very caught up in, “I’m going to do all of the things I hate,” because we’ve heard a few Peloton instructors say, “Whatever it is that you don’t like doing, then those are the things that you should do more of because that’s a weakness.” If you make a whole program of all things you hate, you are not going to be motivated to workout. There has to be a balance. You have to put in classes that are your favorite things that you look forward to doing.

Everybody knows I love a good ‘80s class. I will always pick up music class over anything. I’ll climb a hill if it’s to the ‘80s. I will do anything if it’s to the ‘80s, but there are certain things that I don’t enjoy, like I do cardio. I do a 10-minute cardio once a week right now. Do I love cardio? No, it’s my least favorite thing that I do, but I also love that I’m getting stronger.

My cardio is improving but there was a period of time when I did a 10-minute cardio and a 20-minute. It was great at that moment, and then I hit a point where I was like, “I’m burnt down on this.” I’m dreading my 20-minute workout and I consulted with someone. They were like, “Stop doing it. I don’t want you to hate or dread your workout.” It’s finding that balance of things that challenge you and motivate you versus things that you look forward to that motivate you.

With something like exercise, it’s also important to have a goal that’s maybe a little open-ended. Ultimately, for me anyway, the problem with having weight loss as a goal is that you pick an arbitrary number and you hit it, and then you’re like, “I’m done,” and then you undo all the good things you’ve done because you feel like it’s over when it’s not.

You bring up such a great point that when it’s weight-focused and you hit your goal weight, then what’s going to motivate you? One of the the motivators that I love and Crystal knows this from experience is an event. You plan to do a 5K, a half marathon, a marathon, and anything like that. Those are great goals because they give you something to look forward to. It puts you in a new environment. It gives you training goals that have nothing to do with the things you can’t control and it’s fun.

There was an article in the ‘90s, a study that I read that found that people who trained for a marathon with a partner were way more likely statistically to complete the marathon. Another thing to look at is how you are using your community and how you are using your support system.

I know that it’s oftentimes hard for me to get on the tread for my long run. When I was looking forward to seeing Crystal because we were running together, it made it easier. I was like, “Crystals is coming to me.” I get to see her beautiful face. That helped me to stay motivated. Sometimes we have to find other motivations that may not be what we traditionally think of, AKA weight loss or looking a certain way. We need to look at the connection. We need to look at health. We need to look at process-oriented goals

That makes a lot of sense because you can always pick a new event and/or pick different types of events, but if you’re picking a new weight, you’re either not hitting a goal or you’re stumbling into an eating disorder.

Also, one of the goals that is undervalued is health goals. They’re tougher goals because if you say, “I want to exercise because I want to avoid cancer,” the study shows that exercise helps reduce your risk for cancer. You don’t get a plaque that says, “You have now avoided the cancer by 20%.” Especially as we get older and we are more in touch with our mortality, that is something that can keep you motivated.

Thank you so much for all that. Until next time, where can people find you?

On social media @DrJennMann.

Thank you.

Robin Arzon had an interesting Instagram post. I believe those are called interesting grams.

She did have an interesting gram and she is coming back to Peloton soon. That’s what we got.

It’s very dramatic. I know what’s going on there.

Did you hear the music with this? It is super dramatic.

I’m old. I do everything with the sound off.

I do too but I happened to turn it up because I thought there might be a date or something. I was like, “I should listen.” It’s dramatic music, but good dramatic music. Well done.

Ben and Leanne are teaming up not just in real life but on the bike.

They are going to have a Two For One bike ride. They had a Two For One bike ride to celebrate five years on the platform together. It’s a whole thing. It’s a big old love fest.

Congrats to them.

Congrats to them indeed.

The New York City Marathon was last week. We’ll do a full recap in our Patreon episode, but there was a very emotional and dramatic moment involving Tunde.

Tunde struggled with her her marathon. If you’re listening to this, you probably follow as closely as I do. You probably have heard that she made a very last-minute secret entry to the marathon. She did not tell anybody until the day that she was running it. A lot of people had noticed she’d been running a lot. She has been asked a million times if she’s going to be a tread instructor. She said a million times no. She said in one of her Instagrams that by mile 23, she was ready to quit.

She gets to 800 meters left and she stops. Who does she run into? Mandy. Mandy is a listener and she is a Peloton fiend like the rest of us. She met Tunde in Chicago. She went up to Tunde. and she said, “Come on. Come on. I met you in Chicago. I need you to come with me.” She got Tunde across that finish line. If you’re watching this or you go watch it on your own, I get goosebumps every time I see that because you can see Tunde leaning on her like, “I needed that.”

You can see it in her body language. As Tunde says, “That is what this community is. That’s what it’s always been. That’s what makes it special.” As you said Tom, how cool is it to get that reminder that you might be a Peloton instructor? You might be one of the most amazing athletes on the planet like Tunde clearly is, and you could still struggle with doing a marathon. It is not easy.

There are different types of fitness. Is Tunde in amazing shape? Absolutely. You would be a fool and a communist to suggest otherwise. Just because she’s good at one thing doesn’t necessarily mean she’s going to be good at another. It’s fascinating because I would think running a marathon is difficult, but in the shape that she is, it should be relatively easy compared to the average person. To see that it’s not is fascinating and also a great reminder for all of us mere mortals on our fitness journeys.

That’s exactly right, and we all need a little help. We all need a little encouragement. We all need that extra push over the finish line in different ways. Mandy, how great that you did that. Many people would have been afraid to say that to Tunde. You don’t know her.

It’s like this parasocial relationship that we talk about where you feel like you know her but she doesn’t know you, and then here she is having this difficult moment. I would struggle with like, “Should I bother this person right now? They’re clearly having a moment. Who am I to go up to this amazing athlete that I am nothing in comparison to?” I totally get how that could be a struggle. It’s a great story.

Congrats to Tunde for finishing.

We look forward to Power Zone days. Benny Adami is teaching his first-ever English language ride.

He did teach it this past Saturday.

He taught his first ever English language ride.

It was a schlager ride, which I guess is a type of music.

I don’t know. That sounds dirty to me. In my head, it is going to stay dirty.

Go ahead, enjoy. I’m super excited that people who had not gotten to take a class with Benny yet were able to take this class. If you haven’t yet, Benny is so fun. He is literally a vibe. Make sure you get a chance to circle back around and take this class from Saturday, November 4th at noon.

Coming up after this, we’re going to talk about who is the latest person to have an artist series and also go over all the cool content. If you’re trying to put together classes for yourself, you know what the best of the best is. Stick around.

The latest artist series features none other than DMX.

This is cool. They’re going to have seven classes for DMX. They’re also going to have a Lanebreak tread and a Lanebreak ride class. It’s a total of nine different classes that you can take to celebrate DMX. It’s cool whenever I get to do one that people don’t go, “Who?“

Although I’m sure there are some older people who DMX I would think is pretty well known.

If you love your Peloton, you know there is a wealth of content and you never know what to pick sometimes. It’s paralyzing trying to decide what you’re going to use your limited time on. That’s where we come in, starting with the TCO Top Five. We have crowdsourced all the information from people who have already taken classes, and they tell us what the best of the best is. Here we go. One, two, three, Crystal.

Check this out. If you want an upper body challenge, you need to go back to December 22 and take a 20-minute seated adaptive upper body with Logan Aldridge. Betsy said, “This is a great adaptive class. I recently had knee surgery. I’m unable to do anything except upper body and I was thrilled to find these workouts.”

We have our favorite Peloton ride. I heard this from so many people, the 60-minute cover-to-cover ride with Jenn Sherman from October 29th. David Stember said, “This ride was a masterclass in awesomeness. I feel like I should write Jenn Sherman a thank you note, but I’m pretty sure she checks new posts on The Clip Out each morning. Holy smokes, that music was amazing. Take this ride. You won’t be sorry.” Jennifer agreed and she cried when it went from Nothing Compares To You into Purple Rain. Only Jenn Sherman can pull off that transition.

We have the favorite Peloton row. This one was on November 2nd, a 20-minute 1989 Taylor’s version row with Matt Wilpers. Kesha Dykes said, “This is one of many for whom Taylor Swift is a gateway to new things. In her case, it was Matt Wilpers’s row. I don’t usually row with Matt but I will probably start more. I love the long intervals and the music was perfection.”

There was the favorite Peloton run. Again, Taylor 11/2/ 23. This was 30 minutes with Selena Samuela. Nicole Marie said, “The 1989 run, she gives a long warm up and cool down with some interval and he’ll work in the middle. I’ve already taken it twice.” I added, “It was great. I took it yesterday as part of a long run day and I loved it because I had three Taylor Swift classes all lined up for 90 minutes.” Our favorite unstackable ride comes from a 15-minute Tabata ride with Robin Arzon on 10/4/23. This came from Laura Corcoran. She said, “If you’re doing right She’s In Yellow, it’s unstackable.” It’s a Tabata climb. That’s a lot.

Tabata and yellow.

Tabata climb and yellow. It’s all you need to know.

Peloton also has released a 5 Boroughs Outdoor Run series.

This is in partnership with the New York Road Runner. We talked to Rob Simmelkjaer. He had said, “You’re going to start seeing content drop. This is the very first thing we saw drop five different classes one for each borough. I thought this was going to be like toward the marathon. You go through it and you’re doing the simulation of the marathon. It is not that, but in my opinion, it might be better because each borough gets its own 30-minute run and it’s based on the music and the details from that borough. I took the Queens and Staten Island. I found out that I dig the musicians in Queens, not on Staten Island.

Who was it in Staten Island?

It’s already gone.

It’s not like a genre that you don’t care.

It was all over the place. It was some people that I didn’t care for the music or at least those specific songs chosen, whereas Queens had so many people like Beastie Boys. There were several hip-hop songs that I remembered. I don’t remember who sang them. For whatever reason, there was a song from Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga, and then the Somewhere Over the Rainbow guy. What’s his name? He has the ukulele version. I can’t think of his name. It was this interesting eclectic thing, plus it was Matty. I love Selena. She did the Staten Island one. I thought I would enjoy that too, but some of the music just didn’t hit, which is okay. It’s not personal for me.

I was a little disappointed that the Somewhere Over the Rainbow ukulele guy isn’t from Hawaii.

He might have lived in Queens. That’s another thing, and I noticed this more on Staten Island than on Queens. Some of these artists might have gone to high school there or they were born there. Christina Aguilera was in the Staten Island one. That was a song I knew, but I didn’t like her that much. Genie in a Bottle is not my thing.

It doesn’t rub you the right way.

It doesn’t, but I know it does to other people.

Tunde has an arms program in German.

This is her Arms with Tunde program that has been around for a while, but it’s been completely remastered for German viewing. It’s dubbed. I’m so glad they’re doing it though. I like that they’re making a point to add in this German content.

I don’t know if you know this or not, Germans also have arms. Sometimes they have too many, then they invade Poland and you have issues.

Let’s not talk about invasions. It’s not a good time.

It’s nice for someone else to be invading Germany for a change.

No comment. You’re going to get us yelled at.

Finally, This Week at Peloton, courtesy of Peloton.

We already talked about the 5 Borough outdoor runs, but I wanted to make sure that we also talked about this epic sing-along. This is a super special class because, on Sunday, November 12th, Jenn Sherman is celebrating ten years with Peloton.

That’s pretty awesome.

That is a special sing-along. There’s also a bunch of new foam rolling and mobility content that dropped. Make sure you check that out, also in English and German. A lot of new content dropping this week.

We have only one birthday and it is from Aditi Shah. I guess it’s probably from her mother.

Happy birthday, Aditi.

That will be on November 10th. There you go. Happy birthday. Coming up after this, we’re going to talk to David Kipper. We had a fascinating conversation about how your brain works. I think you’re going to dig it. You should stick around.

Joining us is Dr. David Kipper. He is a Beverly Hills internist with a highly personalized boutique practice and an international clientele. HIPAA prevents us from letting you know, but you would know some of these people.

He’s fancy.

He provides individualized and preventative care for his patients with sub-specialization and addictive disorders. He’s published numerous articles on health and healthcare advocacy. He’s produced segments for the Today Show. He’s appeared as a medical expert on multiple major networks. He’s also authored two bestselling books, including The Addiction Solution and Override. He also hosts Bedside Matters, which is a podcast you should check out. Yet, for some reason, he’s still here talking to us. David, how’s it going?

I’m happy to talk to you, guys.

Thank you for being here. I was so delighted when we found out that you were a Peloton user. We were talking a little bit and we had an interesting conversation about all of what goes into Peloton and I won’t even say the psychology, the science behind why that works. Before we get into that, I would also like to ask, when did you originally get into Peloton? I still like to hear everybody’s background on Peloton.

I was always a runner for many years until a meniscus ended that career. I was starting to hike and I would do that for a long time. I had a patient who bought a Peloton treadmill when it first came out. I had been on Peloton before and I liked them and I liked the idea of it, but I didn’t have one. That person did not want their Peloton anymore and they wanted to basically give it away to their doctor.

They didn’t. We gave them some money for it, but I then got onto that treadmill and I absolutely loved it. It’s perfect for all the right reasons. It’s convenient if the weather is not good for hiking and we have rattlesnakes along our hikes. At certain times of the day, I can’t do that. I don’t have that problem on a Peloton.

Plus, you don’t get as sweaty. It’s different when you can sweat inside versus outside, I think.

I love some of the components on that. I love that you can go to another country and do a walk or a fast walk as much as I go. I love that there are people around doing the same thing. That’s comforting. The convenience is great. There’s no excuse not to exercise if you have a Peloton.

There's no excuse not to exercise if you have a Peloton. Click To Tweet

Do you know off the top of your head if you have a Tread or a Tread+?

Does it have slats?

I don’t know that nuance. How new is the Tread+?

It originally came out in 2018, but then the larger one that has the slats that are horizontal got pulled from the market in 2021 due to a few injuries and also a tragic death that occurred where a child got pulled underneath the Tread+. They’ve been working with the CPSC to rectify that and put a rear safety guard on it. Those were recalled. That is actually supposed to be back up for sale in time for the holiday season with all of its new fancy safety gear coming out as well.

Painting with a broad brush, using my marketing brain, and applying demographics to the situation, I’m going to go out on a limb and say if it’s Beverly Hills, the guy or gal probably had a Tread+.

I was in New York and I was staying at this hotel and it was like a kid in a candy store in their workout room, in their gym. They had all the different kinds of Pelotons. I’d not been on a bicycle until this trip. I tried the bicycle. That was fun and different. There’s variety. It’s great.

I know that you’re an addiction specialist, so I say this very lightly, but I’m a little bit addicted to Peloton. I have the Tread+. I have the Rower and the Bike+ and I also have the Guide. I’ve made it my world. Peloton has become my world.

How do you decide which one to use?

She sits there and waffles for 40 minutes, then finally picks one and complains that she picked the wrong one until it’s time to pick again.

I beat myself up for picking the wrong one. In all seriousness, I’ve been into running lately, so I have been spending a lot of time on my Tread. I used to bike all the time. Somewhere along the way, I got involved with the community. They convinced me to start running and I took to it. I enjoyed it. I’m the slowest runner that you will ever find.

She’s running right now.

You can’t see because that’s how slow I am. I absolutely love it. I do a lot of rowing in between, though, but I use the rowing as more of a warmup for everything. That’s how I make it work. I also have a Tonal, and I tend to use that whenever I do strength. I don’t use the Guide very much. That’s the one that gets neglected the most, probably.

I would get a great endorphin from running and it was the only time I would ever get an endorphin. Other things, whether I walked or I hiked, and even on a treadmill, I wasn’t getting the same endorphin. Now I’m getting that same endorphin. It’s wonderful. That’s one of the reasons I resisted getting a treadmill because when I would travel and go on a treadmill, I wouldn’t get the same effect. Now, on the Peloton, I’m getting that. I’m thrilled.

Why do you think that is as a medical professional?

I don’t know. I think part of it is that I’m going slower because I’m no longer running and therefore because I’m going slower, I’m going longer. I have a feeling that it’s because I’m extending my workout that that’s coming through. It’s a whole different day for me. If I don’t exercise in the morning, I’m not nearly as nice, empathic, caring, and loving. It’s very different when I’ve had a dose of an endorphin.

That’s not very important in your line of work, I wouldn’t think.


I thought it was bedside matters. It’s bedside madders, so you get madder and madder.

It’s treadmill matters.

I’m the same way. If I don’t have a workout, I feel like something is missing and it doesn’t feel the same.

I’m the outlier who works out in the afternoon. I don’t do it in the morning.

You don’t get the endorphins out of It.

I hate it.

There you go. You’ve sold me on moving to the afternoon. Crystal, don’t you find that when you work out in the mornings, you tend to eat a little more carefully and probably sleep a little bit better?

I definitely sleep better and I do eat better overall. There are exceptions to that. I would be lying if I said there weren’t. I have a terrible sweet tooth. I work from home now and it’s dangerous because if there is chocolate in the house, I find it. I ferret it out. I have to be careful about that.

I don’t think ferrets can have chocolate. That could be dangerous.

Tell me more about this conversation we had a little bit earlier. You were telling me about this book. There was a whole background to it. I’m not setting it up properly, but I was fascinated by these different ways that kept you from exercising differently. The endorphins have a lot to do with it.

The chemistry of the brain.

For years, I was trying to convince people to do lifestyle the right way. “You shouldn’t do this, you should do this. The exercising, you should stop smoking, you should lose weight.” I would spend plenty of time with people. I would hear them out. I would try to figure out where the resistance was coming from and create plans. It never worked. I couldn’t get people to change their lifestyles. At some point, I figured, “This is just me. I’m not doing this right.”

I had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who’s a PhD psychologist, Dr. Cowen. We’ve known each other forever. He and I, in a conversation, were lamenting how we were both idiots, and neither one of us could get people to listen to us. I thought, “Maybe it’s not just me and it can’t be just the two of us.” There was a missing link in this.

From work that I had done with addiction, I realized that the drugs actually pick us. We don’t pick the drugs. You take a drug that gives you a chemical that your brain is deficient in. As an example, people who have alcoholism tend to be low in serotonin. People who do stimulants like cocaine and methamphetamine are deficient in dopamine. They’re not attracted to both. Why isn’t it that people do all drugs? If you have an addictive personality, why aren’t you doing everything?

The drugs actually pick us. We don't pick the drugs. Click To Tweet

That’s the reason. It’s your brain chemistry. The way this is sorted out is interesting, and now it is very scientifically documented. There are two basic neurotransmitters in the brain. There’s dopamine and serotonin. They’re opposite in what they do. Dopamine is a stimulating neurotransmitter and serotonin is a calming neurotransmitter. The body wants both. You want equilibrium. The body, if it gets too excited, it wants to calm down. If you’re too calm, it wants to bring you up a little bit so that you’re in an equilibrium.

It also has some evolutionary benefits. That’s how our brains decide and mitigate how we behave, as an example. We all have imbalances in both. Some of us have imbalances more in one direction than the other. If you are dopamine imbalanced, the behaviors that you can see predictably are things like being reward-driven. This factors into motivation, by the way. I’m getting in a long-winded way as to why this counts in exercise.

In all of these different lifestyle issues, how do you motivate somebody to change their behavior? If you have a dopamine imbalance, you are motivated by reward, immediate gratification, and variety. You might have some problems with impulse control, with focus. There are all these behaviors that we see with a dopamine imbalance. If you have a serotonin imbalance, you are the opposite. You’re looking for calm. You don’t have problems with impulse. If you’re mad at somebody, they’re not going to know about it until you get to a point I think, Tom, you were saying, until you’re ready to murder them.

For the record, I have never murdered anyone that you can prove.

Serotonin people are the ones that tend to be more anxious and have social anxiety. They can be more meticulous and problem-solving. The dopamine people, I’m a dopamine person, they’re big picture. They come up with their conclusions pretty quickly. They’re often wrong. Someone with a serotonin imbalance is doing a much better job of bettering out what’s going on. They’re usually right.

These behavioral patterns are reflexes. Once you know how people behave, you can pretty much guess where their imbalances are. Where does that come into motivation? Let’s say we’re trying to get somebody motivated to exercise. If you’re trying to get me motivated as a dopamine person, you’ve got to build in some reward. You’ve got to build in some variety. You’ve got to make it pretty short-term rewards and short-term activities because we tend to get bored easily. Dopamine imbalance people tend to hold a schedule much better than serotonin people.

I think that’s a survival mechanism for us because we’re not as focused generally. If I know who I’m dealing with neurochemically, I can design a behavioral program to build in some of these motivating factors. It works if you then set these things up and there are medications, of course. You have a hyperactive kid in the classroom, he is a menace to the environment and you give that kid a stimulant, which makes absolutely no sense. He’s hyperactive because his dopamine levels are low.

You give him a stimulant, which gives him dopamine, and he calms down. For people who are socially anxious, you give them back a little serotonin and they’re a lot better. This is where alcohol comes in. Alcohol’s giving you serotonin. There are people that go to a party where they don’t know anybody or they don’t know enough people at this party and they preload with alcohol.

Now they’re bumping up their serotonin stores and they get to this party and they’re a little more gregarious. These neurochemicals make a difference. I think designing these programs, whether it’s exercise, weight reduction, or sleep issues, you have to know your audience. Figuring that out, you can then design some very specific programs. Generic advice for lifestyle change doesn’t work. That’s why there are 4 million books out there based on you shouldn’t eat this, you shouldn’t go to sleep with this going on. These generic solutions don’t work because we’re not generic.

Generic advice for lifestyle change doesn't work. Click To Tweet

I feel like it’ll work if they cast the net wide enough, they’ll scoop up some people that it works for accidentally. Those people, if they scoop up enough of them, they’re evangelical about whatever this product is. I always say that I feel like when it comes to how you should eat. I always say it’s very much like religion. People find the thing that works for them and they think it, therefore, should work for everyone and then they won’t shut up about it.

That brings up another issue which is durability. You throw that net out, you’re absolutely right and there are going to be people that are going to be converts and they’re going to behave this way. After a while, their neurochemistry and reflexes will resurface, and you may not be able to keep them on that path. That’s generally what happens.

People can be good at these things for a few weeks or a month and then it falls apart. Think about New Year’s resolutions. Starting around December, when we’re bloating out, drinking too much, and staying up too late, we’re going to make those resolutions on January 1st. I’m sure you have a lot more sales at the beginning of the year than you do at the end of the year.

We see it in our downloads. We can tell what time of the year it is by where we’re at in the ebb and flow of the download. Summertime is bad, but next week, it will start to pick up and it will ramp up through January and February. As you start to approach summer, it will decline again.

Medicine is that way. As an internist, I don’t see nearly as many people in the summer. Why is that? My guess is that people are outside. People are socializing. People are traveling. People are less burdened by their day-to-day stuff. I think something clearly happens in the summer that we’re not seeing at any other time.

When you take somebody like Tom who hates exercise, no matter what he does, do you have any thoughts on where he might land in something like that or is that just a piece of it, like what you’re talking about, the chemical piece of it? That’s something to look at, but not the only thing a person should be looking at for motivation.

First of all, I think if he’s someone who hates to exercise, he should not sell Pelotons.

We’re not affiliated with Peloton, to be fair.

I think there are pieces of this so that there are reasons that people don’t want to exercise and that are beyond their neurochemistry, but their neurochemistry does play into this. If someone is motivated to make changes in their life, what motivates people from a health standpoint to make changes? It’s usually fear. Somebody famous gets sick and for two months, everybody’s going for a chest CT or someone’s going for a colonoscopy or whatever that is. People that are not prone to exercising and that’s a lot of people. This behavior isn’t new, Tom. My guess is that you were not fond of PE.

No. That is a living hell. When I heard people complain about like PE and were worried about not getting picked first, I was like, “Dear God, don’t pick me first. You should pick me last. I’m awful. I don’t need the added pressure of being picked first.”

You never got to right field in Little League, right?

This is a good one.

First off, I’ll tell the short version of the story. I swear to God this is true. I struck out at tee-ball. That happened. I was so bad. This sounds like I’m doing my tight five. I swear to God this is true. I was so bad at tee-ball that they made up a position for me to play. Now, they made up positions anyway so more kids could play. You had like shortstop and then center field, like traditional positions. In between shortstop and center field, you had what they called short center. They also had a guy who played behind the center fieldsman called back center. I played behind that guy. That’s how bad I was at sports.

You were on the other side of the fence.

My job was if the ball were to somehow make it out to me, I should pick it up and bring it in with me at the end of the inning because the play had already taken place. That is 100% true. I played behind the guy who played back center. That’s how bad I was.

This answers that question, Crystal. There are smaller things, but I think the neurochemistry comes into this. Our neurochemistry is genetically inherited. If you have an imbalance in your serotonin or dopamine system, that comes from above. That comes from a parent. What’s interesting about that is where all that information comes from in the body.

It doesn’t start in the brain. It comes from an area in your small intestine where the small intestine connects to the colon and is called a cecum. That’s where your appendix flops around in the cecum, which is like a 2-inch organelle. It’s where the body has these colonies of bacteria, viruses, and fungi that will determine the level of your neurotransmitters. They’ll determine your immune system. They’ll determine your insulin levels. A lot goes on in this microbiome and there is a connection between the gut and the brain. There are actually neurologic pathways that connect. This is where this all comes from as a factory, but where it is determined is in your genetics.

When you see all of the different things that Peloton does, where do you feel like they fall in the motivation and who are they attracting? Are they attracting people who have one side or the other or do you think they’re attracting across the board different kinds of people?

I think both, to be honest with you. Let’s say that you are serotonin deficient and you function from fear. Somebody in your family gets a bad diagnosis or you go to your doctor and the doctor says, “Your hemoglobin a1c, your pre-diabetes blood test says that you’re headed towards diabetes.” That’ll scare the pants off of them and they are then motivated to do something. Where machinery like Peloton comes in is that there is no excuse. There’s no time issue, so it’s available. There’s the convenience of it. You have it right there. There’s almost no reason why you can’t do that.

Whereas somebody that’s got a dopamine deficiency and they’re used to this kind of regular exercise because they get that reward, just the endorphin reward, it becomes the same issue. They have no excuse. There’s no issue of convenience or time and there’s all this variety for a dopamine person. It’s fantastic because you can do all these different programs. You have three different kinds of Pelotons. I think neurochemistry comes into this to some degree, but everybody can filter into this for different reasons.

You gave us some homework that we have here. It was questions that we were supposed to answer that would help us figure out what our brains are doing. Did you want to walk people through the sort of things we were asked and where we would land?

This is a test that Dr. Cowen and I created that is based on behaviors. You extrapolate the behaviors backward into if they’re showing these behaviors, these are the brain chemical deficiencies or imbalances. We talked about a little bit of this before. We all are hybrids so people can fall into a bell-shaped curve. There are some people, fewer than most, that fall in the middle. Everything that falls off of that bell-shaped curve is where most people end up. Most people have one greater than the other as far as their imbalances. You can have specific imbalances that create these specific behaviors.

This test that you were given is based on these behaviors. Thirty questions. You answer the ones that are true to you. Do you get nervous in a new social situation? Do you always look for something new and exciting? Are you capable of taking a risk? Are you someone who gets into the weeds on problem-solving? I’m just picking a few of these questions out. That will again identify whether this is a dopamine behavior or a serotonin behavior.

We are actually tired of talking about this as neurotransmitters and we labeled the dopamine people swords because they’re actively out there looking and slashing the serotonin people being far more common trying to avoid that. They were the shields. I’m a sword and a serotonin person would be a shield. Interestingly enough, Dr. Cowen and I were on different sides of the fence. We were writing this book together. We each had different behaviors regarding punctuality, about staying on time, so we annoyed each other all the time because we were opposite.

It’s funny though, because Crystal and I are very opposite on things, but we feel like that’s what makes it ultimately work. It’s because I’m not good at the details and getting down in the weeds, but I’m really good with the big picture. I’ll do big picture stuff and then I hand it off to her and then she does the actual work.

The two of you walk into a car dealership and you want to get a car. Tom is walking out of there with the car and Crystal you’re saying, “No. Let’s shop around a little bit. Maybe we get a better price.” You’re both annoying each other on some level. That’s how these two behavioral types interact. Tom, what you said I think is true. I think that it’s good to have a little bit of the other side of who you are.

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I married her. If we were in a car dealership, she’d be like, “Let’s get the sports car,” and I’d be like, “Let’s get a family truckster. We’ll get more use out of that.”

There is no doubt that I would say sports car. The funny thing is although day to day I am so detail-oriented, when it comes to stuff like that, I’m like, “Sports car, I don’t care how much it costs. Why do we have to deal with things like that? Buy the car, done. We’re done here.” Tom would be like, “Hold on, let’s talk about this.” It’s so funny because when it’s day-to-day, I’m the one that’s centered on the schedule. I’m focused on all the details but when it gets to like things I want, I just go for it. My therapist says that I have controlled impulse behavior, which I’ve never heard, but I love.

You’re the guy driving around with a gun in his car for road rage but you don’t load the bullets.

If you tick me off, wait for it. I may not come after you right now, but there will be a moment. You won’t know when it’s coming but it’s here. I will wait till that moment and then I will verbally eviscerate you and then I will never talk to you again. I wait for the moment.

If you look at all of these behaviors, they’re behaviors that have traveled along with you your whole life. They’re reflexes and changing those reflexes is very difficult. Getting people motivated to do things that are against their brain is why the recidivism rate for whether it’s addiction, whether it’s an eating program, whether it’s an exercising program, it’s very difficult.

That’s fascinating.

I guess we’re going to put a pin in this interview right here. I know we are because I’m putting it right now. We will come back and complete our conversation with David Kipper on the next episode because he was so gracious to spend so much time with us. Until then, where can people find you?

People can find me on Facebook at Facebook.com/crystaldokeefe. They can find me on all social media and the Peloton leaderboard @ClipOutCrystal.

You can find me on Twitter @RogerQBert or on Facebook at Facebook.com/tomokeefe. You can find the show online on Facebook.com/TheClipOut. While you’re there, like the page and join the group. Don’t forget our Patreon, where we will continue this conversation with all the stuff that we didn’t have time for in this episode. We will meet you over there.

Let’s go do that now, Tom.

Until then, keep pedaling and running and rowing.


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