TCO 277 | Sex Life

277: Will People Buy A $3,200 Rower? Plus Dr. Jenn After Dark!

TCO 277 | Sex Life


  • Rower round-up!
  • No financing is available for Peloton Row.
  • We finally have good footage of the rower.
  • The Verge has the first review.
  • Rowing classes will not be on the app.
  • Peloton makes changes to terms & conditions addressing what is and isn’t on the app.
  • Places you can check out the rower.
  • The Guide now has rep counting.
  • Jayvee Nava completes her first post-Covid 5K.
  • We have new instructors.
  • Rowing instructor Ashley Pryor was hiding in plain sight.
  • Adrian posts a throwback pic of the first Row Content Team meeting.
  • Jess King has her baby shower.
  • Camila Ramon & Neige Borges host IG Live for Latinx & Hispanic Heritage Month.
  • Tunde will give the keynote at the International Association of Women’s Inspirational Influencer Gala.
  • Kirsten Ferguson partners with St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.
  • Kirsten was also on the Best Today Podcast.
  • Matt Wilpers post on IG with CEO Barry McCarthy.
  • Ben Alldis & Leanne Hainsby got a new house.
  • Susie Chan and Jermaine Johnson both celebrate 1 year with Peloton.
  • Angelo joins us with tips for fueling before and after long runs.
  • Hydrow increased its ads this week and released its version of BootCamp classes.
  • Nordictrack has a live bike ride in the Gran Fondo Maryland.
  • The latest in the Broadway Series spotlights Moulin Rouge.
  • Peloton has a fun IG post for Fantasy Football with instructors.
  • Birthdays: Leanne Hainsby (9/28)

All this plus Dr. Jenn After Dark!

Watch the episode here


Listen to the podcast here


Will People Buy A $3,200 Rower? Plus Dr. Jenn After Dark!

You’re going to Big Sur.

Let me just say, I want to go to the marathon route and only do 21 miles. I’m going to say only because more than one person has said, “Why not do the last 5 miles?” Let me tell you why. Here’s the deal. Big Sur is one of the toughest marathon courses in the country. The reason it’s so tough is because it’s so hilly. Also, you have a headwind coming at you the entire time because it’s the only way. It’s a very popular highway.

Whenever you see people driving on a pretty highway in a movie set in California, this is the one they’re driving on. It’s the one Thomas Rhett sings about.

Here’s the thing. They can only keep it closed until 1:00 PM. If you do the entire 26 miles, you have to have an average pace of 13 minutes and 45 seconds. If it was 1 mile, no problem. I could do that.

One mile is not a marathon.

It’s not, 26.2 is, and I cannot guarantee that I can do that. If you don’t finish, they’ll pull you off the course and no medal. If you go all that way, you want the medal. They have this other one called the 21-miler and it starts at the same time as the marathon, but it’s 5 miles up the road. Now you get 18 minutes a mile to finish, and I got that. I can do that all day, so I’m doing it.

Even uphill against the wind.

Dr. Jenn, who’s going to be featured prominently in this episode, will be joining me, and so will Christina. I’m so excited. I heard from Tim that we might be doing a Peloton gathering perhaps that Friday night. This takes place on April 30th, 2023. Mark your calendars if you care. If you don’t care, that’s okay. You don’t have to come. I’m super excited about this. This is a big piece of me feeling confident enough to take on an entire marathon.

I suggested, what if you start with medium-size sur? You were like, “Absolutely not.”

I heard this is one of the most beautiful runs that you can do. I need that kind of motivation. Plus they have some unique things at this one. They have this whole set of drummers that come out, and there’s a guy who plays the grand piano in the middle of the Bixby Bridge. This bridge is iconic, apparently. Also, there are people who are giving roses out and you can eat fresh strawberries 3 miles from the end. Where else can you do all of that in one marathon?

Is eating strawberries that close to the end a good idea?

Yeah, wild strawberries.

Does it make it better?


It’s like 3 miles.

It’s only 45 minutes. You’ve been out there for six hours.

That still seems like a lot. What about the last hundred feet? Hand me something then.

I’m going to be very focused on the little finish line at that point. Get out of my way. I got to be knocking people over.

I’ll be sitting there playing on my phone, patiently waiting because that’s my superpower. It’s patiently waiting.

We stayed at a hotel near the end so you can hang out at the hotel the whole day. All you got to do is show up when I get there.

I’m going to have to google if there are comic book stores near.

We’re in the middle of nowhere, so the answer is no. You can hang out with Christina’s husband.

I will do that. Does he like comic books?

He’s a nerd, but I don’t know that he’s the same kind of nerd.

There are so many different complexities to nerdom these days.

I truly don’t know if he’s actually a nerd. I just know he doesn’t workout.

He just watched the Star Wars movie one time. I love how you assume anyone who doesn’t workout must be a nerd.

That’s not what I’m assuming. I remember Christina saying that Tim was her Tom because his name is Tim. In my mind, that meant nerd, but it could just mean he doesn’t workout. She didn’t say that. I might have been reading too far into it. I was projecting my Tom because she said her Tim was my Tom, and the letters in your name are one-off. I feel like you’re going to get along.

My ex-wife had the same confusion.

Not the same confusion because I am not sleeping with anyone named Tim.

Fair enough. Speaking of dirtiness, it’s Dr. Jenn After Dark. That’s what we got for our interview for this episode. We’ve been teasing this for a while and we finally got around to doing it.

Get the kids out of the room.

For that section, it’s like Dr. Jenn’s section supersized. Engorged is maybe what we should say. The word engorged isn’t inherently dirty.

It’s not inherently, but you on the other hand are.

I don’t think a small child will hear engorged and automatically assume that that’s dirty.

I feel like a lot of women are going to feel about that word like they do with moist.

Moist is a gross word. We have questions from listeners, but they are all sex and relationship questions. There will be 4 or 5 or something like that.

I think we ended up with five. It’s a good cross-section of the different kinds of questions that came in. I had a lot of fun doing this particular segment.

As did I because it’s after dark. Beyond that, what pray tell do you have in store for people?

We’re going to talk about the rower. We’re going to row all over the place. We have so much to talk about with that. Also, there is a ton of updates from the instructors and Peloton employees. We also have a visit from Angelo, talking about fueling before and after long runs.

That is timely for you.

We’ve got a lot to cover.

Before we get to all that, shameless plugs, don’t forget we’re available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts. Wherever you find a podcast, you can find us. While you’re there, be sure and follow us so you never miss an episode. Maybe leave us a review. We have a new review. It says, “A weekly must listen. I’m looking forward to a new episode every week. I love how the podcast is structured and how it flows. All the guests bring expertise and laughter. If you have a Peloton, this is an absolute must-listen to stay in the know with the current news and happening.” Thank you very much. That’s appreciated.

Thank you, Luke. I assume your name is Luke. We have to go backwards for a second because last episode’s review when you read it, you wondered if perhaps the person leaving the review might have been drunk. Tracy Dingman rang me and said she was not drunk. Apparently, Apple does not carry over your username.

Thank you for the review, Tracy or whatever you go by. We also have a Facebook page, While you’re there, like the page, join the group. We’ve had tons of people join the group.

Do you know why? It’s because Liz posted one of my Instagram posts about the rower over on the OPP. People had lots to say. I had a lot of people coming at me telling me how wrong I was until they woke up at 6:00 AM the next day. I was right.

Look at that. Five and a half years and it turns out you know what you’re talking about, which is also a good life lesson for the audience in terms of why we encourage you to share episodes and things like that. That helps us get the word out and keep things moving.

Many people think that everybody who has a Peloton listens to us. That’s not true at all. Please spread the news. We appreciate it.

Also, we have a Patreon. If you’re so inclined, You can get these episodes ad-free and bonus content. We just released probably our longest bonus episode ever.

It was like 25 minutes.

It’s all about our trip to Runway Of Dreams. That was a lot of fun.

It was a ton of fun, and you got to see what video editing skills I don’t have.

When you stop having sex for a long time, bringing it back to the mix is always awkward and uncomfortable. You have to tolerate sucky sex. Share on X

It’s your first time. I thought you did pretty good, all things considered. That’s a good thing for a bonus episode in terms of spending 25 minutes on that topic within the confines of the show might be a little bit much, but for people that want to hear that stuff, it can live over there. We can go into a little bit more detail when you have time to partake. You can sign up for that at

We also have a YouTube channel, where you can watch all of these, Also, if you want to find one of the links or something we talk about, because I know we throw them at you fast and furious during the show, you can get those in our newsletter that you can sign up for at our website, There’s all of that. Let’s dig in. Shall we?

We shall.

We have a rower, and they will actually take your money.

Technically, they won’t.

We should say this because so many people are so mad about things that aren’t true. I’m going to make up something. It’s like, “They killed a baby seal every time you buy one. I am outraged.” “That’s not completely untrue.” “Tell that to the dead baby seal.” That’s what the internet sounds like right now.

I am in a surprisingly good mood considering what I’ve been reading for 24 hours solid.

They don’t take your money until it either ships or 90 days.

90 days or 5 days before your delivery date. I have to be very exact.

That’s why you’re here because if it was me, we’d be talking about The Monkees. I don’t even know where to start.

Let’s start with the price because that’s what everybody was outraged by. That’s outrage number one.

Should we start with where people lost their sh*t chronologically or in order of magnitude?

I think chronologically makes the most sense.

“$3,200, this is an outrage for this thing that I told everybody I wasn’t going to buy.”

Here’s the deal. It is the most expensive rower on the market. However, it is only $620 more than the Hydrow. If you compare it apples to apples. Hydrow has a larger screen for one of their options. They have a smaller one called the Hydrow Wave. Peloton, I believe this is a 22-inch screen and it compares to the larger Hydrow. You also have to get an extra mount for the Hydrow that is separate. I believe it was $70. By the time you add all that up, Peloton is $620 more. Keep in mind, you also have to have a separate membership for the Hydrow. For people who already have Peloton, you would be making up that price in a year.

It’s like fifteen months.

The mount comes with the Peloton and it’s pretty cool. It’s not like a strap and it stows itself. It’s very cool. I say that because part of what Peloton is doing here is being an aspirational product. That’s what we’re going for. It’s not just a strap that you hang on your wall. They’re going for something pretty like what they did for the bike. They did for the rower a statement piece, if you will. I think that they have accomplished that. It’s gorgeous. Let’s not forget the form feedback. There are no rowers on the market that has form feedback.

If there is a version of it out there, which I have not heard any, but let’s say I missed one, it’s certainly not like Peloton. I’ve explained all this before. I went through the specs a few months ago. In case you missed it, the little guy front and back lives on the screen the whole time you’re rowing if you wish him to be. He lights up in red showing you the portions of the move you are doing incorrectly. It also calibrates. When you first get the machine, you set it up, you calibrate it first thing. That’s how it learns your height, your body, and your stroking method. The little guy front and back knows how you stroke.

Yes, he does.

It then responds accordingly.

That part gets even more red like Crystal’s face right now.

These are some differentiators. If you look at the screen, you might not even notice the mount. That’s how non-obtrusive it is.

Is it that black box at the top?

Yeah. That’s it.

It’s pretty low-key.

It takes care of itself. The form feedback is a major feature and the fact that it is whisper quiet. No noise comes out of this thing.

We have one in the room right now. You can’t even hear it.

No, we don’t, but if we did, you wouldn’t be able to hear it. I would probably make more noise breathing than this rower makes. These are key differentiators though. These are huge things that people are acting like it’s no big deal. I don’t know what other articles you have and how you want to pull them up. I mean I don’t know what order you want to go. My next thing is to talk about the fact that it’s not going to be available on the app.

First off, let’s drill down on the price a little bit. I think Peloton has internal data that says a lot of people want Peloton rowing classes, but they don’t necessarily want to spend a lot of money on a rower. In order to circumvent that, they’re not going to put them on the app. They’re pivoting back more to the aspirational model because John Foley used to always tell the story about how when the bike originally came out, they priced it lower.

At one point, they moved the price up and the sales actually increased because the perception was, “This is nicer.” When people heard it originally, they thought, “That must be junky.” When it went from $1,400 to $1,900, now people had faith in it. I think that’s part of what’s going on. The other part of what’s going on is they know that there’s a bunch of people that want Peloton classes. If they put it on the app, they’re going to go buy a $900 rower. Peloton is not here to sell other people’s rowers, so they’re going to make you wait. They’re going to paywall it. If you don’t like that, suck it.

That is exactly right. I want to do a little history lesson for those of you who haven’t been around since the beginning. I know I haven’t been around since the beginning, but I’ve heard a lot of stories so I feel like I have the knowledge of being around since the beginning. If you go all the way back to when the original Peloton bike came out, there was no app. If you wanted to take a Peloton class, the only way to take a Peloton class was on a Peloton bike. There were no other methods. That was it.

When they first did come out with an app, it was janky at best, and then it has come light years ahead. It is so different from how it started. It’s not even fun. When you want to talk about what that price looked like, don’t forget, there was nothing else out there like a Peloton bike whenever the Peloton bike first came out. We have the price that was an issue because they raised it to actually sell more.

We have the issue that it was completely proprietary. There was no app to be able to share it. I know this will shock people. You couldn’t finance it back then. You could put it on a credit card for sure, but you couldn’t finance it. If you wanted to buy the bike, you buy the bike. I feel like people need to go back and hear that again because now what’s happening is people have become accustomed to the new model. It’s also important to remember that the current model that we’ve been seeing and we’ve been accustomed to was put into place by John Foley.

John Foley doesn’t live here anymore.

It’s important to know that although there are a lot of people that still can’t get it through their heads that the man had everyone’s best interest in mind, he did. One of the ways you know that is because he did believe in the democratization of fitness. He believes in getting Peloton in front of as many people as possible. That’s why the app exists. When they came out with the tread, he said, “We’re not raising the price of the membership because I want to make sure that as many people can get it.” That’s what he wanted. That was important to know. The app has all those classes because he wanted all those classes out there.

Many people have been screaming for John Foley to be gone. He’s gone. You guys got what you wanted. Wall Street got what it wanted. They wanted him out. There are a lot of people who ride Peloton that have been saying this. There are a lot of people that are in groups that have been saying it for a long time. There are people that say they’re Peloton supporters, and they say a lot of things about John Foley, and about the way the company has been run. You could go on and on.

My point is that since the day they announced John Foley was no longer going to be a CFO, I said that era is over. The heart is gone. This is an example of that. I need people to understand it. I need you guys to spread the word because you cannot assume that what John Foley always did will now happen. Barry is going to keep doing his A/B tests until he figures out what works.

He’s a numbers guy, plain and simple. He doesn’t care about your feelings. He cares about what moves the needle. John Foley was in a position at least for the first 5 or 6 years of his tenure of those things coincided. At some point, they no longer ran parallel, and now different choices need to be made, and Barry McCarthy is making them.

It would be great if they came out with this at $2,200 or whatever. At the end of the day, by going with $3,200 versus $2,200, I bet you they probably cut their sales by 10%, but they increase their revenue by a lot because they’re getting much more money from them. I think it makes sense. Is it a bit of a cash grab? Yes, but you know what? Right now, Peloton needs cash.

Again, these are the same people. I keep hearing from the same people, “I want the stock price to do better,” and then, “I don’t want to pay $3,200 for a rower.” Both of those things can’t be true. They’re not going to put these classes on the app just because you want them to. You guys made an assumption that Peloton was always going to be there for you and they will always going to do what you wanted them to do.

If the tread had launched under Barry, it would’ve been like this. I think they would structure it like the bike is 40, and the tread is 40. If you want to add one or the other, it’s 50. They would’ve done something like that. Now it’s baked into the ecosystem to walk that back. I think this is their version of trying to walk that back some.

I don’t know where things are on your list, but I know that the terms and conditions change. The terms and conditions now are very clear that there always has been exclusive content on all of the products. If you look at the Bike and the Bike+, Lanebreak, and scenic rides, those are exclusive to the bike. You cannot get them any other way. You can’t get them on the app. It doesn’t matter if you have all access or not. You don’t get them on the app.

They changed the wording to say, “All-access members will only have access to the features and content available on the respective Peloton products they are using at that time.” Peloton Lane, it doesn’t say at that time they are using. That’s how it ends. Peloton Lanebreak is currently only available for use on the Bike and the Bike+. Now, we’re going to see the Row come out and you’re only going to see that on the rower. If you have the rower, then you will have access to it on the Peloton app. If you do not have the rower, you will not see it on the Peloton app. At the launch, you’re only going to see it on the rower.

I wouldn’t be surprised if, over the long haul, you’ll see more rowing classes start to pop up on the app. In eighteen months to two years, they might loosen the reins on that somewhat because they know right now, when people saw $3,200, they would drive rage purchases of $900 rowers. They don’t want to do that. This is their way of not helping competitors in their wake as people are outraged at a $3,200 rower, and they run out and buy a cheap one thinking, “I can just use the app.” This cuts that off at the knees.

It does. There are still a lot of people doing that or saying they’re going to do it. We’ll see if they’ll actually do.

I’m sure a couple of them did.

Honestly, the people that are complaining the loudest were the quickest to cave and buy things. I thought that was pretty funny.

Buy the Peloton.

Buy the Peloton rower. I also think it’s important to say that they have said already a small subset of classes will be available at a later date to try on the app. They’re saying it’s more for trial purposes.

I get that. They want people to see, “This is what a rowing class is going to be. This is what you’re missing. Go buy the cheap one, but you’re not going to get this.”

TCO 277 | Sex Life


I think that’s what’s going to hold a lot of people back. If you already bought your Concept 2, Hydrow or whatever, I could see you keeping it. At the end of the day, the reason we love Peloton is because of the Peloton instructors and they have hired great instructors.

Those instructors aren’t cheap. The frustration and mockery that you hear in our voices or my voice. If you don’t have the means to buy a $3,200 rower, I totally get that. I do not begrudge or shame you for that in any way, shape or form. I don’t mean any of this from an elitist standpoint. I think in the long run, this probably is the best way for them to go about it from a business standpoint. Perceptually, a lot of the people we see screaming the loudest is not about them not having the money. It’s just they want what they want. They’re mad that Peloton once again didn’t dig into their head and figure out what they want, and do it exactly that way.

You can’t because everyone has a different version of what that should be. If you don’t have the money to go get this, you shouldn’t. Don’t do that. Don’t put yourself in debt.

I get your frustration in that situation.

You just want to be part of the Peloton community. I don’t think that the better-best model is going to go away. They’re going to keep that, but you’re not going to see it right away. I use this example somewhere in my mini-post. I look at it like a brand-name drug. Think of it like a pharma company. This is Peloton’s brand new drug that they’ve spent all these years developing. They want to get the most out of it that they can. They’re going to put all the emphasis on it.

They’re going to have the guard around all the different classes. They’re going to be very careful about that. You got to have access to the rower to be able to have access to the classes, however, over time that will become less important, and then you will see more of those classes come up. You will see maybe even a cheaper rower come up. I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. It wouldn’t shock me. It also wouldn’t shock me if, over time, Peloton keeps the same rower and the price goes down just as they did with the bike and the tread. I could see that occurring too.

At the end of the day, they’re going to keep doing the tests. They’re going to keep doing the A/B tests. They’re going to keep seeing what sticks. I’m not saying that I even agree with all the tests that they’re doing because I don’t, but I’m realistic. I understand that it’s necessary. I want Peloton to survive no matter what because this company has brought me personally a lot of joy and a lot of fitness, and it has completely changed my life. I want Peloton to stick around if for no other reason than just selfishness. If that means that they got to sell $3,200 rowers, I’m buying one.

You did. In the middle of all this, we finally got close-up footage.

It is a very pretty rower.

My favorite part is the buttons on the handle. That is delightful.

Many people are like, “There are going to be buttons.” I keep telling you guys there are no freaking buttons. We were right. There are no buttons.

The commercial that they made is clearly from the Ryan Reynolds marketing company since it’s him talking.

I think they’re going to keep doing what works there as they should.

We also encountered the first review of Peloton Row.

There were some others, but I like Peloton Row. You feel dumb saying that.

As an abstract concept, Peloton Row is okay, but when I’m talking about the rower, I’m never going to say Peloton Row. I’m going to say the rower.

Just say the rower. We all know what you mean. This is from The Verge. There were a lot of them out there. I liked this one. I liked the way it was structured. That’s why I used it. Apparently, it’s a 23-inch screen. I must have lied a while ago. My bad. For those of you who don’t know by now, the footprint of the machine is 8 X 2 and it weighs 156 pounds. If you’re counting, that’s slightly more than the original bike. It’s very big.

What else do we have out there?

I don’t know if you want to talk anymore about the review, but they said it was wonderful. That’s the whole point. They love it. They love using it. They love especially the form feedback. They couldn’t say enough good things about it. It was all good.

That’s good to hear.

It was very good. I heard no negative reviews.

I was going to ask, what’s the overall tone?

The overall tone is everybody was very happy with the rower. The only thing I’ve ever heard negative anybody says about this rower was what I reported about it when we lasted all the specs. One person said they didn’t like the way the classes were structured simply because, in so many of those early classes in the beta version, there are a lot of instructions and not a lot of actual rowing. They wanted to see more rowing. I think that’s going to fix itself over time. That’s a non-issue, so I don’t even consider that a big concern. Of course, the price. Everyone’s upset about that.

As Adam Sandler says, “I wish turkey only cost a nickel.” Where can you find your Peloton Row out in the wild?

To start, there are eighteen showrooms where you can test out a rower. They range anywhere from Alpharetta, Georgia, which is really just Atlanta. There are a bunch of cities in California that have them because California is a giant state. There are a couple in Florida and a couple in Texas.

Here’s my question about this list.

Hold on, before you ask the question because I already know what it’s going to be. This is just the start. There will be more coming to other showrooms later.

Since they’re starting here, these are the ones they prioritized. Is this an indication of stores that are more likely to make the cut when the store closure is set?

Yeah. These stores aren’t closing.

Does this inadvertently give us a window into what the store closures might look like?

I think yes because why would you make them the first ones? I also think that these are probably all larger stores because it has to have a tread, a rower, and a bike. Presumably, these are all larger stores too.

They have a larger physical footprint. You would also think they picked the highest traffic stores or the highest sales volumes.

It doesn’t mean that all the other stores are going to close. I don’t want people to think that.

We’re not saying that they’re only going to keep eighteen stores open, but you got to think if you work at one of these eighteen stores, you’re feeling pretty good about your job in the medium term. Moving on from the rower, the Peloton Guide released rep counting.

You can now add weights to your profiles. You get this little weight rack, so you can tell it that you have weights and then you can tell it which dumbbells you have as a pair and what those weights are. That’s pretty cool. You then assign the weights to different classes. If they’re like, “Use medium dumbbells for bicep curls,” you can say, “My medium dumbbells for bicep curls are going to be 10 pounds.” Every time I do bicep curls using your medium weights, it’s going to give me 10 pounds. It’s going to give me the option to choose different ones if I want. All of that was cool. People ask how long this takes to set up.

Honestly, this was super easy. You can use the remote and all you have to do is click. It was super easy. I didn’t do any custom weights. That might be a little more difficult. This is where it’s saying, “For lightweights for the bicep curl, what are you going to do?” You could choose each of the different weights that you already had chosen. It’s very simple to do. I love all of this. This was so beautiful and intuitive.

It’s wonderful. However, we got to the actual class, and it didn’t track my weights at all. It didn’t track any reps. There were no reps tracked. The bicep curls didn’t work. Squats depressed didn’t work. There was a waiting march. You have to hold the weight above your head. As long as you are moving, it tracks. That worked and nothing else worked.

It’s like your gym teacher in high school when they’re making you do push-ups. He was like, “1, 2, 3, 3, 3.”

It didn’t track at all. There was just zero. I will say that the dog was in the room and the view of the camera the entire time, but it still tracked whenever I held it above my head, even though the dog was in the room. What I’m trying to say is you would think that it would have still done the bicep curls in the same way. The weird part is that everyone was like, “Restart it and it will work,” because other people had this issue too. It didn’t do a thing for me. It changed nothing. I don’t know what is happening. I have heard this from other people. Once they restarted it, they had no other problems. This appears to be an us-only problem. I don’t know why. Maybe that’s why they sent me that one. It didn’t work.

They’re like, “We know rep count is not going to work on this one. We can’t sell it so send it to Crystal.” Jayvee Nava, who long-time listeners might remember.

She used to be the face of the Peloton OPP. She had taken three years off from running because she had ACL surgery, and she has been recovering and slowly working up to running again.

I’m sure COVID canceled a bunch.

She finally got to do a race. She did her first 5K in three years. Congrats. That’s pretty cool.

We said we’re done talking about the rower, but there are new instructors who happened to be rowing instructors.

It has been 30 seconds since we used our intro so we had to do that.

We have new rowing instructors who are now official.

We have Alex Karwoski. He is a world champion, an Olympian, and a dog dad. I’m going to love his pictures if nothing else. We have Ash Pryor. She’s a former Big 10 rower and she is described as sunshine mixed with a little hurricane. For some reason, that grin that she has right there on the rower, I believe that sunshine with a little hurricane. We then have Katie Wang. She’s an expert strength coach who radiates warmth and will always bring the burn. We can expect to see lots of bootcamps from Katie Wang. Maybe she’ll be showing up in the strength content as well. Congrats and welcome to all three coaches. I know they’ve been part of the company for a while, but it’s the first time we’ve officially gotten to say welcome.

They’ve been a part of the company since at least May. Adrian Williams had a fun post.

“Throwback to our first Peloton Row content team gathering, May 23rd, 2022.” There they all are. I think that is so much fun. I love that.

What I loved even more was this post from Becs Gentry, where they snuck in Ash Pryor.

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It says, “Here’s one special behind the scenes of the day. We decided Ash Pryor should dress up as a PA to get into rehearsals as you were all in the studio taking your live classes at One Peloton. #undercover.” I love this picture so much. I was like, “That totally would work.” I mean, it did work, unless the Prophet was there. If the Peloton Prophet had been there, they would have spotted that.

Maybe they know who the Peloton Prophet is and they did a sweep. They weren’t there that day so they felt confident trying to pull some shenanigans.

That could be.

Jess King had her baby shower and she posted it on Instagram but I somehow lost the link. For people watching on YouTube, I don’t have that link to share with you. Sorry. That’s on me.

Thank you for accepting responsibility because I definitely sent you that link.

You did. I looked at it and then somehow when I cut and pasted it, I grabbed the wrong link.

If you didn’t get to see it, you can check out Jess King’s Instagram and there were a ton of pictures. A lot of instructors were there. They were all celebrating together. The most interesting thing about it was the reverse birth. There was a reverse birth that took place. This woman was dancing around and basically, she put herself inside a giant balloon representing the uterus. It must have been spectacular because almost all of the instructors that were there videoed it and put it on their Instagram. It looked interesting. It looked very artsy. It looked like the kind of thing you would never find in Missouri. That’s what it looked like, but also very cool.

Peloton Apparels has an Instagram live coming up for Latinx Heritage Month.

It happened already. You can still go check it out over on the Peloton Apparel page. One of the instructors is Camilla Ramon. The artist who created the wonderful piece of art that is the Latin Heritage Month collection, they both did a live together. If you didn’t get to check it out, you should.

She looks like the lady from Only Murders in the Building.

Do you know who I thought she looked like?

Who’s that?

I think in cartoons. Do you remember the lady who is The Incredibles designer? That’s who she looks like to me.

That would make sense because she designs things. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that the International Association of Women’s Inspirational Influencer Gala is just around the corner, but in case you don’t know, Tunde will be giving the keynote there.

It will be at Mandalay Bay. I do like Mandalay Bay. It’s beautiful. It’s in Las Vegas. It’s gorgeous. This event is going to be geared toward inspiring, educating, and empowering women to achieve their greatest level of impact and success. There’s going to be a networking brunch. Most of all, the keynote speaker will be Tunde.

Kirsten Ferguson is partnering up with the St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.

She’s going to lead a walk, run and a warm-up stretch before the 5K at MetLife Stadium on September 24th. Your birthday

Speaking of Kirsten Ferguson, she was on the Best Today podcast.

It was an episode about how to set healthy intentions through affirmations. If you ever listened to her intention-setting Sunday classes, you will know why this is such a great topic.

It’s episode 81 if you’re trying to find it. Matt Wilpers was doing a little sucking up with the boss. That’s smart. That’s how you do that. He had a post on Instagram, him and Barry.

I’m pretty sure this was a rower celebration kickoff. It says, “Great day to celebrate Peloton and got to hang with Barry.” I didn’t picture him hanging out in a t-shirt kind of guy. There you go. There’s Barry. He doesn’t even wear a watch. How uncool. Not even an Apple Watch. I’m totally joking.

I don’t wear a watch.

I know you don’t. That’s why I’m joking.

I hate watches.

I love it for all my tracking. That’s the reason I do. He looks so bare-armed as if he’s expecting something.

Ben Alldis and Leanne Hainsby got a new house.

They’re going to be tracking their progress and I’m sure it’s going to be in all the magazines because that’s how they pay for it.

That’s how you do that. That’s a good deal if you can get it.

For sure. We’ll be seeing more of that. I’ll be keeping you guys updated whenever magazines post their stuff.

Susie Chan is celebrating one year with Peloton.

I can’t believe it has been a year. This delightful lady.

She’s one of your new faves.

I love this woman so much. She has great music and great energy. She didn’t start running until she was in her 40s. I guess I feel a kinship with her. Congrats to Susie. That’s awesome.

Also celebrating one year is Jermaine Johnson.

I haven’t taken as many classes with Jermaine, but the classes I have taken have been amazing. He’s got great energy. He’s so much fun and congrats to him for celebrating a year as well.

Joining us here from MetPro to answer all of your nutrition-based questions, it’s Angelo.

Hi Tom and Crystal.

How’s it going, Angelo?

It is dandy. I am excited to be here.

We’re excited to have you here. I have several questions here. The thing is Facebook put this new function for your group. You can add everybody. Since I added everybody to the group, we got inundated with questions. I’m going to pick and choose. We’re going to start off with Nicole Marie because she asked a question that I feel is near and dear to my heart. How to fuel appropriately before and after long runs?

This is probably one of the most frequent questions that I get asked, and the answer is it depends. Appropriately means different things for each person, depending on what your goal is. Since the question wasn’t, “I’m trying to lose 20 pounds” or “I’m trying to do this, that or the other,” I’m going to assume that in her case, what she’s trying to do is heighten her performance.

We’ll go with a priority hierarchy. Here’s the priority hierarchy, Nicole. First, you want to fuel optimally or appropriately your entire day for several days leading up. Ideally, you’re fueling ongoing, weeks leading up, but at least for a few days leading up. Even over race day, you want to get a good routine. A lot of people are saying, “What should I do, pre-exercise, pre-race, post-race workouts, post-race nutrition, and recovery?”

When I have somebody getting ready for an event, typically, I’m going to have them eat a minimum of 4 or 5 times that day. There’s always going to be pre and post-food coming in. Depending on what time of day your race is, you want to make sure that you’re getting prior to the event some fuel, a good dose of carbohydrates, a little bit of protein, and in that particular meal, low fat. You also don’t want a bunch of fiber vegetables. Otherwise, you’ll get what our coaches affectionately call the trots.

Keep it simple, things that you can digest, and what you’re going to want to do. I’m going to get a little bit technical here. When you are doing a carb loading cycle, a professional carb loading cycle is not what most people would think. When you carb load, what most people will do is about a week out from the event, they’ll decrease their carbohydrate intake by about 15% to 20%. That actually sensitizes the body to glycogen uptake. You don’t need to do this, Nicole, but I’m explaining where you’ll dive in at.

With that slight sensitivity, then about 24 to 48 hours prior to events, the athlete will increase carbohydrates by about 20% higher than what they’re typically accustomed to. That allows them to superimpose more glycogen inside the muscles to give them just that little extra fuel for a small window of time while they’re engaging in their race. If you are not at that level of specificity, what you want to simply do is think, “Here’s what I’m currently taking in. I’m going to increase that by about 20%.” A simple way to do that is to start the day before at lunch, snack and dinner. That’s a simple entry point because you can’t cram it all in the meal right before.

Increased by about 20%, Nicole. The great way to do that is to increase a little bit the meal before, but then the day before, it’s going to be lunch, snack and dinner if you increase a little bit specifically in your complex easily digestible carbs. Potatoes, rice, and things along those lines. That’s not the time to load up on broccoli. Whereas in every other conversation, I’m going to be pushing broccoli. Right before the race, you want things that are going to be easy to digest. After your race or your event, that’s where you can have if you like a little bit of a cheat meal. I tell my clients, “Go and get a few extra calories, but get something that you like.” If you go and you have 3 pounds of pizza, you’re going to get nauseous. You might not want to do that.

Be selective but that’s where you can do a recovery meal, have something you enjoy, and don’t stress about it too much. You’re going to perform well. A quick note about intra-training fuel. While you are participating in your activity, you’re going to want to make sure that you have some high glycemic sugar. That’s where you use the supplements like the goose, the gels, and all that sort of thing. You’re going to want to start having those. Again, this is the big it-depends disclaimer. You’re going to want to start supplementing with that at about 45 minutes to an hour in, and then depending on how long your race is, then you’ll take it every 45 minutes to an hour. You’re going to do well, Nicole.

If people would like this sort of tailor-made advice for themselves, where can they find you?

Hydrow, not to be outdone, has increased its ads.

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I’ve had a lot of people send me emails that they’ve been getting and it has been a multitude. It makes sense that they would be increasing that.

That is why it was smart that Peloton announced that they weren’t going to put rowing classes on the app. I think that was their thought process of like, “You buy our rower, it’s cheaper and you can still take the Peloton classes,” and now you can’t.

You cannot. On that note, I want to say a couple of things. One, Hydrow also announced that they’re going to start doing circuit classes, i.e. bootcamps. They released bootcamps. They’re clearly trying to compete directly with Peloton.

They need to.

The other thing I want to mention is that in a lot of the articles that have been coming out talking about Peloton and the new equipment dropping, we neglected to mention how much money Peloton has spent creating this rower. Even at the price they’re selling it that everyone is so appalled by, they’re still losing a ton.

Is it because of all the R and D that went into it?

That’s what they’re saying. Back to my brand name analysis earlier.

It was a long road.

Some of these other people have been talking about the Peloton rower and they think that they broke news. We’ve been talking about the Peloton rower longer than other places even exist. We’ve been talking about this rower since 2018. That’s how long we’ve been talking about the rower. I will never forget when we went to Homecoming and found out about the rower, and came back and talked about it in 2018. That’s how long ago. We weren’t supposed to find out about it, but we did.

That’s what we do. That’s what you do. I make jokes, but that’s what you do.

That’s how much money they’ve spent, four years. Is five years the bet?

It has been a bet. If that’s your metric, they might not ever make it.

I hope that they do.

I hope they do too. I think if all you want is a rower, Hydrow is probably going to win. It’s a cheaper monthly payment and their top line rower is less expensive, so why wouldn’t you? If you think you’re ever going to want anything beyond rowing, Peloton is a no-brainer because you get all this other stuff baked into the app, and then if you add a piece of equipment, it’ll work, instead of having a Hydrow for this and an iFIT for that.

I hope that this doesn’t destroy Hydrow because I always like Hydrow. I like that they came out with something unique and new. I like the fact that they do their on-the-water classes. I like the fact that they’re classy and they’ve always been nice. They’re not taking cheap shots or completely ripping off what Peloton did and calling it new. They’re over there doing their thing and being a good company. I like that and I respect them for that. I hope that they continue to do well. I hope Peloton does well. I want both of them to continue to survive.

While we’re talking about competitors, Nordictrack, iFIT or whatever we’re supposed to call it, announced that they’re doing a live bike ride in Gran Fondo Maryland.

This looks cool, which is why I saved it. I know people have told me before that these occurred. I know that they existed, but I think it’s a neat premise that it’s a live bike ride and you can watch along with them. You can get on your own bike at home and take their class. You can be there as long as you want to be. The entire route takes them about two hours. You can set your pace slow or fast as you want. You’re going to go through a bunch of the state parks. You’re going to go through the national park, and then you go back downtown to Frederick. After you finish the entire thing, you get a digital reward in your trophy case. I thought that was pretty fun. That’s neat.

The latest in the Broadway series spotlights Moulin Rouge.

This is exciting. A lot of people are very excited about this. There are going to be classes. They’ve already started. Bradley Rose and Sam Yo are doing a two-for-one class. Leanne Hainsby is doing a class, Matty Maggiacomo, Kristin McGee. Tobias in Germany is also doing one. Lots and lots of fun. Everyone is excited about it.

I’m irritated by the title and the way they do Moulin Rouge with an exclamation point. It’s a pet peeve when titles of things have exclamation points in them. Don’t tell me how to feel about it. I’ll say it how I want.

That’s Broadway.

I know, but I don’t like it. I like Broadway but I don’t like the exclamation point.

You don’t have to.

Sam Yo had a fun Instagram post.

Brad and Sam are doing a two-for-one class for this, and they’re doing this in style. There will be outfits. There will be top hats. There will be all kinds of high jinks that are going to ensue.

Will there be shenanigans?

Yes, shenanigans will take place.

I will say that even though I don’t like the exclamation point, it’s nice how the theater looks for Moulin Rouge. It looks cool. It makes you want to go just because of how the inside of that theater looks.

It looks pretty. I want to go just to watch it. That sign there said, “A joyous spectacle.” I think that’s true. I want to watch the spectacle.

They don’t put an exclamation point on it, but I think that part is accurate.

Sam and Brad already recorded their class and I saw highlights of it. It looked amazing. I saw Matty Maggiacomo’s outfit for his class.

I bet that’s something.

There are so many sparkles.

I can’t even imagine how much glitter there is. It’s like everybody is going to get free LASIK, whether they need it or not.

I can’t wait. He loves Broadway.

A fun post from Peloton, letting you use instructors to build your Fantasy Football team.

They have them divided by music. They have hip-hop quarterbacks.

Kirsten Ferguson was not happy with it.

She’s like, “I have beef. How in the world am I not in the hip hop quarterback?” I think it’s a fair question. How is Rebecca Kennedy in there and Kirsten is not? They both play hip hop for sure. They have EDM safeties. Jess King, I get it. Olivia Amato. I do not think Susie Chan belongs there at all. Ben Alldis, for sure. Daniel McKenna, EDM, what?

Daniel McKenna got the D and the M part. I think that’s what’s going on there.

We got the pop running backs. Matty Maggiacomo is starring there, Callie, Becs, Cody and Jermaine. Those all make sense to me. The Latin linebackers all make sense to me too. Robin, Camilla, Mariana, Hannah Corbin, Rad and Selena. For the rocking wide receivers, we’ve got Kendall, Dennis, Emma, Jenn Sherman, and Andy Speer. Christine is more new wave than rock, but I’ll take it.

It’s college rock. That’s what we used to call that. I feel like when they got their wide receivers, they didn’t know what to do, and they gave up. They had rock and wide receivers.

Where is Kirsten Ferguson? What did they do with her? She’s nowhere.

You got 52 instructors or whatever.

It’s 58 because they hired three more.

They couldn’t even include them all if they did a fantasy deck of cards.

There were a lot of instructors not included. It’s not like they singled her out. They did not.

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She was out but not singled because there were lots of other people that didn’t get included.

Finally, we only have one birthday. It is Leanne Hainsby on September 28.

We have two birthdays. We have Leanne Hainsby on 9/28 and we have Tom O’Keefe on 9/24.

Since I’ve never touched a piece of Peloton equipment, I don’t know that I count.

You’re Peloton adjacent. Are you going to a Peloton meet-up this Friday?

Yes, as a plus-one.

I cannot wait. I have already received multiple requests to buy you birthday drinks.

That could get ugly. I’m not a young man anymore. I’m pushing 60.

You’re not pushing 60. Stop it. You’ll barely 50.

I’ll be 52. That’s pushing 60.

It is not. Don’t you start by saying I’m pushing 50 because I am not okay with that.

If 52 is pushing 60, then it would stand a reason, mathematically speaking.

It’s not pushing 60. You’re making that up. Happy birthday.

Thank you.

Joining us is Dr. Jenn Mann, licensed marriage, family and child therapist, and Sports Psychology consultant. You may know her from VH1’s Couples Therapy with Dr. Jenn or VH1’s Family Therapy with Dr. Jenn or her long-running radio show, The Dr. Jenn Show. She has written four bestselling books, including The Relationship Fix: Dr. Jenn’s 6-Step Guide to Improving Communication, Connection & Intimacy. It’s Dr. Jenn. Hello.

We are so glad you’re here. We got some people that need some help.

We should probably remind people one last time. This is Dr. Jenn After Dark. This won’t be Peloton-related questions. They could be. It depends on how much you like Peloton. These will all be sex and relationship questions that we’ve compiled from you guys. Almost all of these questions started the same way, “Don’t tell Tom that I asked this question.” She has honored her HIPAA. She has not told me who any of these submitters were.

Let’s get into this. I’m going to jump around. The first one is, “What do you do to get the romance back in your marriage when you have become too comfortable with each other? There are no issues, no loss of love, but life has gotten in the way. You get into a routine, and the spontaneity of love went away. Trying to schedule a date night or sex night does not work because it puts too much pressure and anxiety since you have it scheduled.”

I’m thinking of the romance that she means sex.

I would agree. That is how I am reading that as well.

Here’s the first thing to know. When the sex life between a couple has dwindled and you’re not having sex that often, all relationships have an ebb and flow. If you’ve been married to someone for decades, it’s not going to be like it was the first year. You’re going to have some years, 10 years in or 20 years in that are great sex years, and some that are terrible sex years. That’s the nature of the beast. Here’s the thing for people to know. When you stop having sex, bringing sex back into the mix is always awkward and uncomfortable, and the sex is going to suck at the beginning. You have to tolerate sucky sex, not sucky in a good way.

Number one is you have to tolerate that it’s going to be awkward. What tends to happen is that when you’ve been married for a long time and you stop having sex, the other person starts to feel overly familiar like a family member more than a sexual partner. It feels like this weird and almost incest taboo that the person starts to feel more like their mother, father, brother or sister, and it starts to feel icky. Also, you get out of the practice of approaching each other, seducing each other, and all that stuff.

The first thing I say is to tolerate the uncomfortable awkwardness. Make a pact to laugh about it or have a good sense of humor about it, but not laugh at each other because, in that awkwardness, everyone is vulnerable. You have to be careful and sensitive of the other person. If scheduling it or making a commitment to it feels too much pressure, what I recommend is take intercourse off the table. It sounds like this is a heterosexual couple, the husband and wife. Take intercourse off the table and make a commitment to explore each other’s bodies.

Maybe even say, “We are going to make a promise not to have intercourse and not to have penetration. We are just going to get back into sensuality, touching, kissing, and things that are more sensual.” Sometimes the pressure to perform can make it either not happen. Performance anxiety can make someone not be able to perform. It can feel so awkward. I would start with, “Let’s make a commitment to make out. Let’s make a commitment to get naked together. Let’s make a commitment to touch each other’s bodies.” In sex therapy, there’s what we call sensate focus, where you explore each other’s bodies. You go from head to toe, “Does this feel good? Do you want this softer or harder?” It’s even touching someone’s shoulder, “Does that tickle? Does that feel okay?” It’s to commit to exploring each other’s bodies.

It’s making it less goal-oriented.

Also, less pressured. The other thing is to look back into your history together. What worked and what didn’t, then play on what worked. Let’s say you’re a couple who used to always take showers together and that led to sex. Take a shower again together. Even if it doesn’t end up being sexual, make a commitment, “Let’s have some time together where we’re naked in the shower because that is a positive sexual memory that we have together.” She said something about planning sex and date nights as too much pressure. Here’s the other thing. I think that she’s thinking about it all wrong.

I was thinking the same thing. Make it a selling point. Now you’ve got this thing to look forward to.

I hear a couple say this all the time, “Date night feels too cliché. Planning sex feels like too much pressure.” When you are dating, you bet your ass that before you’re date, you got your bikini wax, you got your nails done, and you did all the stuff because you knew you were going to get laid. If you’re not planning it now, you’re going into it not feeling prepped, not feeling quaffed, not feeling put together, and saying it’s too much pressure. It’s about putting time and energy into the relationship, romance and sex, which you did before. I recommend doing it again.

If you don’t, when you have been married for a long time and you have kids, a job, a mortgage and a life, and you are busy, it’s very easy to let sex fall off of the buffet table. You stop offering the plates. What we want to do is we want to get the plates back on so that you can pick from them like, “I’ll have that appetizer. I’ll go for the main course later. I’m just going for dessert tonight.” We want to bring it all back. You have to think about it differently. You plan for it in the beginning and need to continue to plan for it.

To that point, when you’ve been married and you put that prep into it and don’t have a plan like if you try to surprise the other person and they’re not feeling it, it is disappointing.

That’s the struggle. The stakes are so much higher because if you just start dating someone and it doesn’t go according to plan, it’s easy to be like, “That’s just not for me,” and you move on to the next person. When you’re married, you got kids, a house, and all the things, and it feels like it didn’t go well, you’re like, “What does this mean?” You almost give yourself permission to fail.

Also, do not take it too personally and learn from it. When you’re not super hurt at the moment, first of all, don’t attack your partner like, “You never want to have sex. I don’t get enough sex. You are terrible. You’re a bad husband. You’re a bad wife. You’re a bad whatever.” Instead, be able to later come back and say, “I feel like we’re not connecting as much sex as we used to. What can I do to help change that?” Sometimes it’s like, “You’ve been hanging out in granny panties and ripped t-shirts. It’s a turn-off for me. I wish you’d put on this outfit. I feel most attracted to you when you’re right out of the shower.”

They’re the things that we take for granted. We don’t ask and we make a lot of assumptions. Years into a marriage, we assume a lot of things. One thing that most people don’t realize is that our sexuality and what turns us on with our partner changes over time. If you have the great fortune to be in a long-term relationship that is sexual, what turns on your partner at age 20 is going to be very different at age 50, whether it is sexual fantasy, clothing, makeup or the talk.

Sometimes people grow into liking different things that they didn’t when they were younger or they become less inhibited and are more able to be more open. The other thing that’s important along those lines is to create a non-judgment zone in the bedroom. That good sex is not politically correct. It’s important to leave the room for all kinds of fantasies, talk, and stuff that is fun, but people won’t get there if they feel like their partner is going to judge them.

It’s especially difficult if you’ve been in a relationship for a long time and you talk about having new things that evolve in terms of your sexual taste. It’s like, “Where did you get that from?”

In my book The Relationship Fix, I have in the back of the book a sexual inventory that I recommend couples do once a year. This could be helpful for this person. It is a list of questions for couples to ask each other. It starts off benign like, “What makeup do you like? What outfits do you like? What’s your favorite way that I wear my hair?” It’s those kinds of things and gets into more graphic questions. There’s a list of different activities, “Would you like to try this? Should we do this? What things do I do in bed with you that you wish I wouldn’t? What things have you never told me you would like to try that we’ve never done?” It gets progressively more and more intimate and vulnerable as the questions go on. It’s a great thing for a couple to do. I recommend doing it once a year because things change over time.

That’s very good advice.

It’s like when you change the smoke detector batteries.

Pull out the book, do the inventory, and do a little check.

Have a glass of wine. Sit together. Take turns asking the questions.

If the list works, you’re going to need that smoke detector. I think we’ve gotten that one. Hopefully, that helps. Let’s see the next item up.

This is from someone who says, “What do you do if you absolutely have no desire or sex drive in your 60s? You’re on estrogen cream but do not want to get on any hormone pills. Somebody told me there’s a testosterone rub on your wrist, but I don’t know. That sounds bizarre.” We have somebody who feels like, “What on earth can they possibly do?”

My degree is in Psychology, not in Medicine, so I don’t want to give medical advice. I always say rule out the physical first. Talk to your doctor. One of the things that are very frustrating in women’s medicine is that all too often, especially when it comes to sexual desire, doctors, gynecologists, and general practitioners tend to blow off a lot of women when they say, “I feel like my desire is waning.” They’re like, “It’s normal at your age. It’s not so bad. Do it anyway.” If that is what’s going on with your doctor, find someone else, even if you have to interview a lot of doctors. We all deserve to have a good sex life. We all deserve to have desires.

Testosterone cream will raise your desire. It’s a fact. We know that testosterone creates sexual desire and helps with libido. Is that right for you? Only your doctor can tell you. I also recommend looking at where else in your life you can create a little more sexual energy for yourself. Typically, when we are in the early stages of the relationship, we spend a lot of time fantasizing about the other person, thinking about the sex that we’re going to have, and being engaged in that sexual energy. Look at are you incorporating any fantasy into your life? When you don’t feel sexual, it’s hard to get yourself in that mindset.

Sometimes you have to do that first. One of the things that we’ve found, and there have been a lot of studies about this, is for a lot of people, especially women in long-term relationships, the order of sexual desire changes over time. What we tend to think of is, “In order to have sex, I should feel hot and horny. I should want sex, and then there’s a back and forth between my partner and me. There’s a warm-up and an engagement. Hopefully, there’s an orgasm and an after where you get to recover.” A lot of the time, when you have been in a long-term relationship and are getting older, the desire doesn’t necessarily come before the act.

If you’re someone where you’re not having a lot of sex, and then you have sex and you’re like, “I forgot how much I like it. We should do this more often,” that’s probably you. What you want to do is create a desire for yourself. Create it by reading books. I always recommend Nancy Friday’s books because they are collections of sexual fantasies. Nancy Friday is a psychologist who in the ’70s and ’80s, before there was even an internet, put an ad in the paper asking women to tell her about their sexual desire, “Send me your sexual desires.” She compiled a book on women’s sexual desires. Each one is three pages long.

They’re short to the point that some of them will freak you out, especially if you’re not used to things that are not politically correct when it comes to sex. As I always say, good sex is not always politically correct. Some of them are like, “He was a white knight on a horse. I have my petty coat, and he kicked my petty coat off.” It’s the best buffet that I know of because it has the whole gamut of racy to not racy. Warm yourself up with reading. Warm yourself up with porn, knowing what you like, and what you like to see, and get your juices flowing with a visual image of people having sex. A big part of this is also getting the blood flowing to the area and reminding you that this is a good part of your life.

Another thing is also masturbation. Even if you’re not feeling like it, incorporate it into your life so that you are keeping yourself sexual. One thing that we know is that the less sex we have, the less sex we want. Our hormones drop, and we have less of a desire when we’re not having sex. You want to start to bring it back. Sometimes it’s easier to bring it back on your own. Even if you don’t get yourself to orgasm, just getting yourself sexual and sensual again is important.

The other part of it is making sure that you are paying attention to all those things you did when you were first dating someone like putting yourself together, and not going to sleep in the ratty underwear and funky stuff that makes you feel icky. Try to make sure that if you’re someone who likes to get waxed or trim your pubic hair, get to it. Get yourself sex ready. Sometimes that also helps.

Most of the seduction at the beginning of a relationship happens before the date and before the sex. You’re getting ready. You’re thinking about the other person. You’re putting on something sexy that makes you feel good. You’re picking out cute bras and panties or if you’re a guy, cute underwear that you know she’s going to see like, “I hope she likes this.” It’s making sure you get back to basics with getting yourself sex ready.

It’s like decluttering before you sell your house. I have a porn question for you. We have a lot of females in the audience. I would think for a lot of women, porn can be very male-centric and sometimes ugly. Do you have any thoughts on where women can find stuff that’s maybe a little bit more from a female POV?


There are a lot more now female porn producers that are geared more towards exactly what you’re talking about like porn that has a storyline and is more female-oriented where maybe the partners please the woman instead of all about the guy and the cumshot and that thing. It requires doing a little bit of research to also figure out what it is that you, as a woman, particularly want. There are some people who are like, “I want graphic sex but I want a storyline.” There are some people who are like, “I want softcore porn.” There are a lot of sites where people submit their own at-home porn. There are some people who would prefer something that’s a little more homemade.

It’s like college basketball. Are they as good as the pros? No, but they’re doing it for the love of the game.

It’s about learning what turns you on and also not judging. Most women will be surprised at how many women watch porn. It’s one of these things that is not talked about as much as guys. Guys tend to be much more open about it, but there is a huge plethora of porn geared towards women that you just have to find what turns you on.

Thank you. This next one is a little bit different, but I want to try to include this one. I’m sure you have a lot of advice for people getting back into dating after divorce. What advice do you have for a male who has never dated due to self-esteem, body image issues, a prior eating disorder, career, and religious reasons? This guy has gone to a therapist, but nothing seems to be working. When should he just give it up? “Somewhat the situation that happened in The 40-Year-Old Virgin does not seem to be in the cards.” I think he’s trying to say that’s not going to happen for him. He’s not sure what to do.

First of all, he wants to take a look at, “Is this therapist a good fit for him?” Sometimes a good therapist, when you first start therapy, can be the perfect therapist at that moment in time. It’s like a good starter therapist, especially if you’re nervous about therapy or you come from a culture where people don’t do a lot of therapy. Sometimes you need someone to gently ease you into therapy and not be too confrontational, too aggressive, give you too much homework, and push you too much.

After you’ve done the work with that person, sometimes you need to graduate into someone who is a little more directive, aggressive, and confrontational. It sounds like this person is a bit stagnated in therapy. He is still describing himself as having body image and self-esteem issues. Granted, when you have a lifetime of those issues, they don’t go away overnight. The first thing to do is have a conversation with your therapist.

One of the things they train us to do in therapy school is to have those kinds of conversations where the client is able to say like, “I feel like I’m not progressive. This part of therapy isn’t working for me. I wish you’d be more directive. I need more instructions. I feel like I’ve improved in this area, but not that area. Is that something that you can help me with? Is that something I should see a specialist for?” This could be a great therapist for you for most of your issues, but maybe you might want to work with a sex therapist specifically about sex issues and that kind of thing.

That would be my number one suggestion here. When you have that many issues bogging down your self-esteem, body image, lack of experience, and all of that, it’s a heavy burden to carry. It’s about finding the right therapist. I’m optimistic for him because he wants to change this. He wants to get better. He’s even in therapy and willing to do therapy. He just needs a process with this therapist if this therapist has taken as far as he can go with his education and experience, and if he should be with someone else or maybe the therapist doesn’t realize he’s ready to be pushed more.

Those are a lot of great thoughts. Thank you. Here’s the next one, “I found out my husband has been secretly subscribed to several escort companies and has made inquiries. This has been going on for at least eighteen months but might be longer. He claims he only does this to read the post and look at the pictures for porn purposes. My question is that I feel so betrayed. He has promised to stop, but I can’t trust him anymore. How do we get past this as a couple? If the answer is therapy, how do I find someone specialized? I don’t think just a counselor can help.”

This is a complex question. First of all, it’s easy to point the finger. This is a terrible betrayal of trust, whether he was calling the escorts or not. You don’t go on an escort service site to use it for porn without telling your partner, especially when there’s so much porn available in this day and age that is accessible. You protect your relationship. If that’s what you’re going to do, you then need to say to your partner in advance, “I’m turned on by the idea of escorts. I want to use this for fantasy. I want to give you the heads-up. You can check my account anytime you want so you can see that I’m not meeting with escorts.”

There was an enormous breach of trust either way that her husband did not tell her he was doing this, which also speaks to what’s going on in their marriage. He felt he could not either speak to her about his fantasies or that marriage was lacking so much that he was turning to escorts to fill a void. As a therapist, I always look at things in a system. What’s going on in the system that he felt the need to do this? I’m not blaming her. I don’t believe in blaming people who have been wronged. I also think that when we look at a marriage and a system, we have to look at, “What’s our part in this system?” In terms of recovering from this, I always look at a few things. I always want to see if this person is remorseful. Have they genuinely apologized in any very heartfelt way?

It’s not like, “I’m sorry you felt that way,” or “I’m sorry you caught me.” It’s got to be real.

To have a sense from that person that they understand how significant this breach was and mean it, and that they understand how much they’ve hurt you is important. I always look for four things. I call it the four Rs, and I talk about it in my book The Relationship Fix. The first is remorse. That is a true and heartfelt apology that is not just, “I’m sorry that you felt bad. I’m sorry you were upset. I’m sorry that you had feelings about that,” but a true apology.

The second R is responsibility. It’s taking responsibility and owning it, “I messed up. I should not have done that. That is on me.” It’s not one that points a finger like, “If you had sex with me more, I wouldn’t have had to do that. If you did X, Y, and Z, I wouldn’t have had to do that.” It’s one that takes full responsibility for what this person has done.

The third thing is recognition. It’s a recognition of the harm that has been done. That is the person listening to your feelings. This is where a lot of couples go wrong. The person is like, “I already apologized. I don’t understand why I have to sit here and hear you upset with me and speak to me about how terrible I am.” Part of true amends is sitting, hearing, and understanding on a deep and profound level the damage you have done to that other person. Without that, you can’t move forward.

The fourth thing is a remedy. That is coming up with a plan of action that will prevent this from happening again. In situations like this in a couple where one person has betrayed the other, part of that plan needs to be for a period of transparency, “Here’s the code to my computer. Here’s my phone. Anytime you want to go on it, you can.”

If you have to do this ten years from now, that’s a problem. You shouldn’t need to go on your partner’s phone or computer all the time after you’ve recovered from this and after time has gone by. If you do, there’s a bigger trust issue and a bigger problem in the marriage. Temporarily, it’s being able to say like, “Until you feel safe again and until I have earned your trust back, you have carte blanche to go on whatever you need in order to make sure that you feel safe.”

I’m surprised one of the Rs wasn’t revenge. To the point about carte blanche to check my stuff, there’s an expiration date on that for it to be healthy. I know it’s not as simple as like, “It’s nine and a half months.” Is there a metric by which both parties can realize, “This is a time that we can put that to bed?” No pun intended.

There isn’t a formula because so much of it depends on the betrayal. In this case, it was ongoing for eighteen months when he was on this site. She isn’t clear whether he engaged with the prostitutes or not. It seems it’s a little odd to me to go on this site when there’s so much porn that is available.

My detector is hardcore going off. I would be in the car following this guy. I need to see it with my own eyes, and then we’re going to have this talk.

To come up with a formula, you can’t because there are so many different types of betrayals. Some are ongoing. Some are one-time betrayals. Some are betrayals of trust that are smaller or bigger. There’s too much to figure out. I think this is a couple that needs therapy because this is a symptom of a bigger problem in their marriage that needs to be addressed. May this be the turning point that helps them to get the help they need as a couple and move forward.

In terms of her question, “How do I find a therapist?” You want someone who is ideally trained in Family Systems Therapy and has a lot of experience doing couples therapy. A lot of people don’t realize that you can interview therapists in advance. First of all, talk to ten people on the phone. Go in and meet with three people until you find one person that both of you feel good about.

That’s good advice.

Another thing to keep in mind with checking the phone and the computer thing is that’s all well and good, but do you want to live your life like that? That’s no fun. If the only reason that person isn’t cheating on you is because you got them on lockdown, what have you really accomplished?

I have to say that with the way technology is these days, there are many ways to get around things. If it’s me because I know how I am, I’m never going to be convinced it’s not happening again. That would be tough for me because there could be another phone. You could use an extra account. There are all these apps that will hide things. There are so many ways.

That’s what happens when you marry a project manager. I always tell her that I’m just not organized enough to have an affair. That’s too much work. I’m too lazy.

Here’s the thing. As much as that is very much true, there are also so many ways to catch people. I’ve been amazed over the years at how people have caught people. The other thing is that our instincts are surprisingly good.

We just don’t always listen.

I can’t tell you how many times over many years I’ve been a therapist where someone has said to me, “I had a gut feeling, and I picked up his phone. I had a gut feeling, and I listened in on that conversation. I had a gut feeling, and I showed up at work and ended up catching someone doing something.” It’s important.

It’s funny when you say that. There’s a funny story from my first marriage or should I say my divorce. The advice of my attorney was to a private investigator, which was worth every penny. I asked him one time. I was like, “Have you ever not caught someone cheating when they send you out to do this?” He said, “Only one time.” He had been doing it for 25 years. He’s like, “I’ve only not caught somebody one time.”

He’s like, “This lady had FU money. I was following this person 24/7. I followed him to Vegas for months. I finally had to be like, ‘I don’t think he’s cheating on you. I’ve been everywhere after this guy, and it hasn’t happened.’ Her response was, ‘I still want to be done with it,’ so she divorced him anyway.” He’s like, “If you have enough suspicion to hire a private investigator, you already know the answer.” In my case, I was doing it to prove that she was endangering the children. It wasn’t about that part, but that was part and partial. I thought it was fascinating that he had not caught somebody.

I can see why. When you get to the point where you are putting money into that, things are pretty bad. Something is missing in the marriage. The trust has been eroded. Last but not least, trust is something that is earned back over time with good behavior. It’s going to take time for her to trust her husband again. If he is fortunate enough to earn her trust back, more power to them. Sometimes a crisis in a marriage like this can be the turning point where someone goes, “There’s a lot of crap in this marriage that wasn’t working. That helped us get into therapy and change our marriage. Now, it’s functioning well for both of us.” It’s a horribly painful blessing that happened that allowed them to turn their marriage around and make it something great.

We talked earlier about how the stakes are high because you’re married. Sometimes when your marriage is at a turning point or on the brink of falling apart, it can have this weird effect of lessening the stakes to where you’re like, “If I’m probably leaving this guy anyway, here’s the deal.” You can maybe reset it if you get the proper help and the other person wants to do the work to fix things. It’s all big ifs.

I’m having some things that are coming up that I want to say, but I’m not going to say them.

Do we have one more?

I would like to do one more to bring it up a little more because that’s a heavy topic. This speaks to your sports psychology and sex. I like this one, “How do you balance prioritizing sleep, which is health, and making time to be intimate with your partner? Many active people work out super early, and that means going to bed early and getting enough sleep, which is critical. That then leaves not very much time in the evening for ‘other activities.’ Most people don’t want to get frisky immediately after a meal. What to do?”

First of all, you want to get your partner on the same time schedule as you if you can. That’s the first thing.

This person said it was okay to use her name. It’s Christina, and I happen to know her husband doesn’t do the bike.

Sometimes we have to either take one for the team like, “I’m so tired. I feel like crashing and burning.” Sleep is important, but your marriage is important, and sex life is really important. Sometimes with the Peloton crowd, it’s coming up with the goal in mind of like, “I’m going to try to connect. I will give myself a check mark every time we have sex.” Come up with a minimum number per week that is your goal because Peloton people tend to be very goal-oriented. That is one way to do it as well.

You got to get the blue dot.

Get the dot, get the check mark, and get it done. On the weekend, sometimes you can make up for what’s lacking during the week. On weekends, hopefully, your workout schedule can be a little bit more flexible. Maybe you also incorporate it into a rest day.

I don’t think anybody wants to refer to that as a rest day.

It’s active recovery.

It’s sometimes being willing to get a little bit less sleep or have your workout suffer in order to have your relationship prosper. Maintaining that sexual connection is important. It’s something that is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s a thing that makes things different from your friend. Having that naked contact is important.

If you do it right, it counts as cardio.

Peloton needs to add under the Just Work Out a new box and Just Sex.

I know not everybody agrees with this. This may be an unpopular opinion, but sometimes quickies are the way to go also. Sometimes you don’t need all the other stuff. You need to do the romance stuff and the date night sometimes, and that’s good, but sometimes you just need to hop in there and do it.

That’s a great point. Our sex lives should be varied in that way. It’s also important that we know how to make love and have sex. Let’s have that in our marriages and relationships. It’s really important. It’s the same thing with longevity. Sometimes it’s got to be a quickie. Sometimes it should be hours long, exploring each other’s bodies, and making love. It’s awesome. There needs to be everything in between in order to have a healthy diverse sex life that keeps going for decades.

It’s like classic rock. Sometimes it’s Stairway To Heaven. Sometimes it’s Black Dog. Never underestimate sex first. You build your whole night like you’re building up to the sex, and then you get home and are tired. You’re full of the movie. It ended up being 2 hours and 45 minutes, and there was no need for that. Bang it out before you leave.

It’s a fantastic suggestion. Also, sometimes people get tired after sex, but you get a second win. If you are early enough in the evening and then you hit Batman, it’s all good.

It’s nice when the kids aren’t home, and you can flex that schedule.

Sexual connection is the glue that holds relationships together. Share on X

Thank you very much for this. This was a lot of fun. We should remind people about your book.

It’s The Relationship Fix. We own a copy, and it’s awesome. It’s with an autograph. We’re lucky that way. There’s a lot of good information in there. You always give good advice like always. Thank you for sharing this aspect of your advice giving as well.

There’s a whole chapter in the book just about sex and how to reignite your sex life.

Before we let you go, remind everybody where they can find you.

You can find me on Instagram and all social media @DrJennMann. You can also find me at and InStyle Magazine. I have a weekly column called Hump Day with Dr. Jenn. That’s sex and relationship advice.

Thank you so much.

I guess that brings this episode to a close. Until next time, where can people find you?

People can find me on Facebook at They can find me on Instagram, Twitter, and the Peloton leaderboard @ClipOutCrystal.

You can find me on Twitter @RogerQBert or Facebook at You can find the show online on While you’re there, like the page and join the group. Of course, don’t forget our YouTube channel, That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep pedaling and running, and rowing.


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About Dr. Jenn Mann

TCO 277 | Sex LifeDr. Jenn Mann is one of the most well-recognized psychotherapists in the country. Most known as the host and therapist for VH1’s long-standing hit shows Couples Therapy with Dr. Jenn, and Family Therapy with Dr. Jenn, she has appeared as a guest expert on hundreds of other shows including: The Today Show, The Early Show, Dr. Oz, Wendy Williams, The Doctors, The Maury Show, Steve Harvey, Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, The Insider, and Jimmy Kimmel Live. She has been a host and/or cast member on many series including Shopaholic 911 (Style), Pretty Wicked (Oxygen), Propose or Die (NBC), Family Forensics (A&E), and Married By America (Fox).

She is the author of multiple best selling advice books including: The Relationship Fix: Dr. Jenn’s Guide to Improving Communication, Connection & Intimacy, SuperBaby: 12 Ways to Give Your Child a Head Start In the First 3 Years and The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy Confident Kids which have collectively spent five weeks on the best-seller list. She is also the co-author of the children’s book Rockin’ Babies which she co-wrote with her mother, Grammy award-winning songwriter Cynthia Weil.


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