TCO 272 | Running

272: Pandemic To Pandemonium: Layoffs, Price Hikes, & Do-It-Yourself Bikes? Plus Our Interview With Carey Socol

TCO 272 | Running


  • John Mills joins us to discuss Peloton price hikes.
  • More layoffs at Peloton. Store closures to come.
  • Will future Peloton products require assembly?
  • Peloton explores making its content available on competing equipment.
  • Dr. Jenn – Trouble getting comfortable on the bike. Could it be in your head?
  • Cody Rigsby celebrates 8-years at Peloton.
  • Cody was on Conversations with Olivia Jade.
  • Cody was featured by InStyle.
  • Jess King speaks at US Cellular’s Inclusion Summit.
  • PopSugar talks to Logan Aldridge.
  • Kendall Toole and Callie Gullickson went to the Kenny Chesney show.
  • Chelsea Jackson Roberts was on NBCLX.
  • Jess Sims & Kirsten Ferguson were on the Ali On The Run podcast.
  • Tunde talks to Women’s Health Magazine.
  • Ally Love to be a celebrity judge at NYC Wine & Food Festival.
  • Popsugar spotlights the All For One festival.
  • The New York Studio is officially reopening this weekend.
  • Peloton looks to sublet some of its office space in Plano.
  • Peloton ends work-from-home for employees.
  • Tom Cortese was on Inspired In 15 podcast.
  • explains how Peloton can help your game.
  • Angelo has tips for staying consistent when menopause hits.
  • SoulCycle closes locations and lays off 800 employees.
  • Boxing Bootcamps have a new schedule.
  • Birthdays: Jill Foley (8/20), Crystal O’Keefe (8/20), Aditi Shah (8/24)

All this plus our interview with Carey Socol.

Watch the episode here


Listen to the podcast here


Pandemic To Pandemonium: Layoffs, Price Hikes, & Do-It-Yourself Bikes? Plus Our Interview With Carey Socol

How was 800th?

It was nice. It was a lot of fun because I got a shout-out, which I did not expect.

I know, as do listeners of Reel Spoilers. They could hear you shouting.

I got excited. I might have screamed. I might have wooed. I am a woo girl. It’s in my nature. There’s not much I can do about it. When the mood strikes, I got to woo, so I wooed. Also, it was so much fun. There were so many people on the ride that I haven’t ridden with in so long. We haven’t been on the same schedule. I haven’t been taking a lot of classes and it was so neat to be on this ride with so many people. I got so many high-fives. I felt so much love from the community. It was fantabulous.

You posted on Instagram a post of scrolling through your high-fives and you’re scrolling as fast as you can for twenty seconds straight of all the high-fives.

It was a lot of love.

Speaking of you wooing, you also booked a class in the studio.

Your birthday falls on September 24th. I don’t know if you’re aware.

I am aware of when my birthday was, granted I was very young at the time, but I’ve seen pictures. Not of the actual birth, that would be gross.

At any rate, we were talking about going to New York for that weekend. You get to go see a play for your birthday and I get to go to class. I was waiting with bated breath to be able to sign up. I got into Jenn’s Sunday class for cycling. I got into Ross Rayburn’s class on Friday for yoga. I get to take a run with Adrian, which is at 5:00 and it’s the DJ run, which I didn’t even realize. I was just trying to take classes with people I haven’t met yet in real life. That’s how we ended up there. I’m really excited. I don’t know what else we’re going to do, but I’ve been talking to Gordon Walker and we talked about maybe having a pillow gathering that Friday night. Stay tuned and watch the Facebook group.

We’re going to be in Dallas on Monday. If anybody wants to hang out in Dallas on Monday, that’s where we will be. This will come out on Friday and we leave Monday morning. We’ll be there Monday day because it’s a plane. It gets there in a timely manner. If anybody wants to hang out, we would be in Dallas. What pray tell do you have in store for people?

We have a wonderful interview with Carey Socol. You might remember that we interviewed her once before. By you, I mean the community. She talks about finishing her 50 for 50 marathons and the bittersweet way that she wrapped that up. We talked all about Howie because you can’t talk to Carey without talking about Howie. I know he’s gone, but they are a couple in my mind. They are forever linked. We will be telling stories and having fun. I might have teared up a little. We also have a visit from John Mills. We are going to be discussing what the hell is happening over at Peloton.

It has been a crazy week.

They raise prices and then drop prices. I don’t know what’s happening. “I’m on first. He’s on third.” That’s what’s happening. We’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about the assembly. Now you’re going to do it yourself. It’s all the stuff that has come out. In addition, we have a visit from Dr. Jenn. We talked about psychosomatic symptoms like not being able to get comfortable on your bike, and what psychosomatic is. We also have so much information from all of the instructors. They’re everywhere again. We have a visit from Angelo from MetPro. We talked about menopause and being consistent. We have some competitor news and there are some new things hitting schedule.

Shameless plugs, don’t forget, we’re available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, iHeart, TuneIn. Wherever you find a podcast, you can find us. While you’re there, be sure and follow us so you never miss an episode. Maybe leave us a review. That’s super helpful not just for us, but also for the people that come along after you. You can also find us on Facebook, While you’re there, like the page and join the group. Don’t forget. we have a Patreon now,, where you can get these episodes ad-free and bonus content. We put out a new episode talking about the topic before the topic.

I realized when we do bonus episodes that I put no production into it. There’s no song. We just started talking.

We hardly edited it. If you want to see how many ums we normally use, this would be a good A/B test for you. With all the craziness going on with the price hikes and the store closing, we did a little special episode for people talking about that. You can also sign up for our newsletter at You can watch these episodes if you were so inclined on YouTube at There’s all that. Let’s dig in. Shall we?

We shall.

Joining us once again is John Mills from Run, Lift and Live. John, how’s it going?

How’s it going? It has been a crazy week. Lots of good stuff is happening. It’s good stuff that you’ve been waiting for and it actually worked. It happened. Now I have to work. I have to do something. I’ve been heads down all week. It’s a good thing but I haven’t been able to do normal things like get a haircut and shave. I look all nuts and I’m all scrambled but it’s all good.

I’m glad it’s all good. I’m sorry you’ve had a stressful week.

As stressful as your week has been, I don’t think it has been as stressful as Peloton. There are so many places to start. I’m not sure where to start. I’ll start with the pricing. Surprise, it costs more.

They go from the Bike+ was $2,495, then it was $1,995, and then back to $2,495.

I had a friend of mine send me what they paid in January. This is for the small tread. We’ve got a Peloton tread. We’ve got a 12-month limited warranty. We’ve got a 27-month extended warranty. That equals $2,725. Add the tax on and we’re at $2,888. This friend went and put the exact same tread in the cart to compare it. They do have a 48-month extended warranty. It is a little bit different. That price went from $2,700 to $3,968. That is from January to August.

A regular tread now costs almost what you paid for a Tread+.

I saw what Uncle Barry was saying about getting back to this affluent aspirational brand and prices will reflect that. Really?

It’s so sudden. One, I’m confused because it was in January that they cut the prices. We have the confusion of up, down, up, down. It’s confusing messaging but then add onto it that people went to go buy the tread because he announced this on August 12th. When you went to the website on August 12th, it was new pricing that day. It was already in effect when they released the media.

People of course were like, “I was going to buy a tread. Now what?” Peloton is like, “We’re going to go ahead and credit you a refund back. We got you. If you have been a loyal Peloton customer, we got you.” That’s so nice. Everybody was so excited. They say, “We’re going to honor that until August 19th.” People flock to the store. They flock online. They start buying like crazy, and then Monday, all of a sudden, you hear these whispers, “They’re ending it today.” They’re saying it’s going to be all day. This is at 10:00 AM. They’re like, “We’re going to honor it all day but this is the last day.”

Sitting home that day and not running the marathon would've been far worse. I would've sat there in more agony and grief than finishing something he was so proud of. Share on X

Everybody is rushing. Multiple people were talking to the store, they were in the store. They talk to the salesperson. The salesperson says, “Don’t worry, you’re going to get your refund.” At least one person called customer service from the store and said, “Are you sure I’m getting my refund?” ”Yeah. We got you.” She finishes the transaction. She gets in her car. She drives home. It’s 60 minutes later so she calls up to process her refund. They’re like, “I’m sorry ma’am. We ended that today.”

It may not be the same one, but I saw a person in that scenario.

It happened to so many people. What the holy hell is happening?

At first, I thought this could be a diabolical way to get people to buy treads. One day you go, “It’s $800 more.”

He then gets them off the fence. He takes back the deal like, “Just kidding.”

As soon as he took back the deal, now you’re like Lex Luthor.

You’re like that guy on Austin Powers, “One million dollars.” Anybody I know has now canceled the tread they were going to buy, every single person.

I would cancel it on principle. Even if it meant I had to buy a more expensive tread from another company, I would be like, “Go F yourself.”

Here’s the thing. These people have been escalating. I have talked to so many people. They escalate. It does not matter where they get it, leadership says no. One of our listeners, Terry Shelly, posted everywhere about this. I was in Atlantic City with her. John, you know Terry. She was told on Monday, “You had already bought it. It was in your cart. We can see that on Friday.” This was 10:00 AM on Monday, “We’re going to go ahead and give you the credit.” She’s like, “Great. Let’s go ahead and do this.” She was happy.

I was posting all about this angrily on Monday. She’s like, “I got my credit, girl and this is how.” Fast forward to the next day, they took it back. They called her Tuesday and they were like, “Just kidding.” Leadership took it back. The approval we got is gone. How desperate does this look on Peloton’s part? It’s like, “We have no money so we can’t afford to give it back to you.” That is the message I am hearing loud and clear.

That’s the only place you can come to. I was trying to figure out where else could you go with that.

It doesn’t make any sense. Let’s say that is the case. This is what I’m hearing from their actions. People are not telling me that, just to be clear. If it’s not that, then explain to me how you have all these treads that were about to be purchased and everyone is like, “Nope, never mind.” If you’re that hard up for cash, explain to me how this makes any sense.

Some money is better than no money. You would have been fine with that sale on Thursday. Why are you not crying with that sale on Friday? Offer some grace.

I heard someone say that there were some folks that were buying them to resell them. That’s why Peloton pushed back. So what? Even if that was the case, I don’t get it. You were selling for that price yesterday. Now, all of a sudden, they’re buying them.

I don’t understand what that would have to do with anything. Why would you care? I haven’t heard that, but let’s say that was true. None of these explanations is logical.

If you’re that concerned about people reselling them, then you say, “One per address.” That’s not hard to fix. There will be a couple of people that might have 2 or 3 to ship them to, but nobody is going to stock up on 40 of them.

First of all, everybody is an armchair expert when these things occur. I was told by the armchair experts that this is all legal, what Peloton is doing, because they didn’t put it on their website saying, “We’re going to honor this pricing.” I’ve got attorneys contacting me and telling me that it’s not legal. It is not okay. It’s going to be a major problem. Logically speaking, what the hell are you doing? Now you have another lawsuit you’re going to be looking at because everyone is going to be so mad at you. I don’t understand.

The last couple of times they’ve raised the price. It wasn’t like this where it was immediate.

It was announced, “We’re raising the price,” then they did. It wasn’t like, “We’re raising the price,” and you go look and it’s already done. It was like, “We’re raising the price this week,” or “We’re raising the price next week.” It was a little bit of time.

When I saw the article, I made the assumption that that must be next month or next quarter. I post the article and then I start asking, and then someone posts right under that, “John, it’s right now.” “What?” Where my mind was going is maybe I should hurry up and go over there and buy this thing quickly. I’m going to return to the Tread+.

It’s too late. I don’t even care that they’re raising the prices.

It’s their product. It’s their right to raise the price. It’s not the issue, but when you’re telling people, “We’re going to honor this price for you,” that’s the height of douchebaggery.

I’ve heard so many people saying, “They were never about the customer. That’s what John Foley said. It’s all about the shares.” I have two things to say about that. One, I don’t believe that’s true. I genuinely believe that the reason that John Foley made as many mistakes as he did is because he led from the heart. I do think that he cared about the people. Two, if that’s true, they’re failing based on the stock price. Explain to me yet again where the logic is here.

I’m still trying to piece together why would you do that. One is the immediate price increase which is new. That’s not how it was done before. That second part that we’ve been talking about is, “We’re going to honor but never mind, we changed our mind.” People have them in their carts and other people have been promised by store staff. Both of those things must mean something. I know we’re coming to the occlusion that maybe they must be that hard up for money. I don’t know if that’s what it is. Whatever it is, it’s some screwed-up stuff. I don’t know what is causing that.

Here’s what I picture. I picture Barry at his desk and he has issued an edict, “We’re raising the prices effective immediately,” and then he started seeing all of these exceptions. He was like, “No. We are raising the price. I mean raising the price right now. Stop it.” That’s what I think happened. Somebody proved me wrong, but that is what I think.

You know how Barry has been talking all along about, “We don’t need to be in this hardware business. Let’s just focus on content. Let’s focus on subs.” I don’t remember who it was but someone in my group was like, “Maybe they can be hard like this because they don’t care if you buy the hardware anymore. Uncle Barry is focusing on something else.” I’m like, maybe but why would you piss a bunch of people off?

If your plan is to make Peloton available on all bikes and treads and you don’t care about selling hardware, you need to push that out on those other platforms because until you’ve done that, what are you accomplishing? If you don’t care about it, then you would think you would discount the inventory or just get rid of it.

Now it has taken up all this room and all these places which costs money. Get rid of it then. It doesn’t make any sense. I feel like there’s something.

TCO 272 | Running


If you also align it to you’re a week and a half away from the earnings call, is there a tie to this? Is this tied to something we’re about to hear? That’s where my mind starts going.

I can’t figure out how but Tom and I have been batting around this. I don’t know if you’ve heard us talk about this, John. We have this theory that potentially there’s some partnership between Peloton and Tonal coming. If that were true, do you think that somehow this would make sense? Maybe they need to get lean because Tonal had to make a bunch of changes. Do you think there’s some agreement in place? Whether it’s Tonal or it’s somebody else, there’s something happening in the background that’s outside pressure like, “You have to do these certain things before we move forward.”

Here’s a crazy theory. Again, it’s all conjecture. Nothing to base this on. I’m just throwing ideas. What if part of the deal is each side gets a cut of the hardware sales and part of how they’re hedging against that is by raising the price?

The concept of there some legal or some contractual reason would at least explain some things. Explain it and soften my heart around it if there were something like that. Otherwise, it does seem a little out of character.

If you tell a customer it’s going to be X, Y and Z, then you need to honor that. That’s common decency.

If they don’t have common decency anymore, what does that say about the future of the company? Regardless of how they do financially or the excellent content we see, what does that mean for the long-term viability of the company? Does it mean anything? Do people even care anymore? As die-hards, we care. Does anybody else?

When I turn on my water faucet, I want water to come out. I don’t care what the water company did to get me the water.

That’s the majority of people.

I do think most people are like, “I flipped the switch and Cody Rigsby talked to me. I guess it’s still working. That’s the beginning of the end of most people’s relationship with their Peloton device.

A lot of us have a very intimate and passionate relationship with Peloton. It hits a little different, but I agree with that perspective. I don’t know that it’s any different than any other corporation and their relationship with their customers.

Moving on from that scandal to the next piece of bad news. It’s all confabulated. This is from Bloomberg, Peloton’s new strategy is spinning all over the place. This is an overview of everything that happened in a week. It was also announced that more layoffs and store closures are coming.

We’ve got 780 people being laid off. Most of which are in the last mile. The last mile is completely going away. You’re going to see all XPO, but subsequent to that, also you can put it together yourself, maybe, and they’re going to be closing stores. That means, in my head, we’re also going to see additional layoffs because those stores have not closed yet. It’s 780 now. Who knows how many tomorrow? We have no idea which stores those are going to be, so support your store.

We don’t even have any insight as to what percentage they are looking to close down.

It was very vague. They just said, “Many showrooms.”

Barry has got a lot of questions, not a lot of answers.

That one is tough, but I can get that you’re struggling to try to figure out how to get to a path towards profitability. You’re so bloated now based on the demand for what you offer that you got to do something. It was upsetting how these layoffs occurred, hearing some of the stories of people.

They logged on and found out that they were locked out. #TogetherWeLostOurJobs. #TogetherWeGotLaidOff. That was the hashtag that was going.

I didn’t know that. What I found interesting is I was going on LinkedIn and a lot of these people were kind about the idea that, “I found out I lost my job. I couldn’t log in. I called my manager and I got laid off. It was a good experience.” They were more positive than I think I would have been.

Some of it is age, to be honest. There are a lot of young people, young compared to me, that work in these areas. I feel like it’s expected with a startup. There’s more of like, “Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose.” It’s acceptance. I don’t mean that they deserve that. I don’t mean to belittle that or make light of it. I think that they’re more accepting than we would be in our generation because it’s different. We have different expectations.

The idea that they got shut down some showrooms makes sense. The idea that they’re now going to all third parties, that all adds up. We heard Uncle Barry say that. We knew all those things. It’s upsetting and sad that these people lost their jobs and all, but I guess I could align it. The thought now that you’re now going to have less showroom, my mind then went to, where are these people going to go and try before they buy? Is that a lost thing now?

I think it’s going to be per market. I picture places like Chicago, for example, only because we’ve been there and we only have one in St. Louis. I can’t pick on St. Louis, but Chicago has four and maybe they might reduce. In my head, this is how it’s going to work. They might reduce that. They might not get rid of all four, but maybe it will only be two. Maybe it will even only be one, but they’re not going to lose their presence altogether. It’s going to be more spread out.

In stores where there are multiple markets, that seems a pretty easy decision to make and to pair down. It will be a little bit more difficult maybe in a market like St. Louis where we’re not the biggest city in the world and we’re not the trendiest city in the world. I also wonder if some of the thought processes are that there are enough Pelotons out there now. If you want to try one, you probably know someone who has one.

The rower is coming and we know the rower is coming in September. Here’s what I am worried about. This is me personally, but given how they’ve been handling all of this so far, this is how I picture how this is going to go. They’re going to have all of these stores open through the Christmas season. They’re going to be banging out these rower sales, then in January, it’s going to be a giant ax. All those people are going to lose their jobs, suddenly thinking, “We had the best year ever,” then they’re gone. That’s what I think is going to happen.

The upside to that, if that ends up being true, is at least they get to try to sell the new product and make the commissions off those sales through the end of the year. It makes me think that Peloton will move towards more of a pop-up model or maybe even strike some sort of partnership with another retailer like Tonal has with Nordstroms to where it’s like you can go to Best Buy and try a rower and a little piece of real estate inside their stores.

I would love to see Nordstrom, not so much Best Buy. It gives me Echelon vibes. Sorry, John.

Did you see also in a Bloomberg article where Uncle Barry was interviewed? He said that he’s hopeful that the rower will be available by the holiday season. Do you think that like to throw us off the trail?

I do because I’ve heard too many things. They’re doing field testing right now. Anything could change when you start field testing and you know that John because you’re in technology. If something shits the bed unexpectedly, then I’ll change my opinion. Everything I’m hearing, and I have heard some good stuff, is that people have been testing for three weeks and it’s going very well.

Tom, should I give a little Peloton Prophet showdown on the rower while we’re in here? I heard that there is in fact form feedback on the rower. It does actually look at your form and tell you whether or not you’re rowing correctly, which is very important for a rower. People usually get the form wrong when they first start. The other thing which I found fascinating, remember how I have been saying since the beginning that I thought there was the foot on the bottom of the rower and it’s going to stand up to store it? It turns out that is true but get this. It has this arm that when you row, it turns in and stores itself automatically. I know I’m hearing nothing but amazing details on this. It’s so good. That’s what I’m hearing.

Hawaii is a very spiritual place. Many of the runs felt very spiritual, and being there was beautiful. Share on X

I can’t wait until it drops. I’m looking for a product to drop that truly has some level of innovation that makes people go, “That’s different than these other pieces in this space.” I probably would rather get that piece of hardware because there’s some innovation relative to it. I’m hopeful that is the case.

I was crossing my fingers but I agree with you.

We should probably touch on this real quick. We mentioned briefly the idea that they are trying to figure out a way to redesign the bike so people can set it up at home and they won’t even need the delivery. Hot take. Good idea.

I agree. If I can put it together, I feel like anybody can.

People are losing their shit because they’re envisioning getting the bike that they have now. They say flat out, redesigning the bike. They’re going to make it to where presumably you plug in the monitor and it automatically attaches to the other cables in there and it blocks in the place and you’re good to go. If they want to lower their delivery costs, this would do that.

It would also take XPO out of the picture, which I think is great, or at least reduce their part in it. Susie Barris wrote and she said, “What about small people like myself?” She can not lift a 150-pound box. I do think that needs to be addressed. I’m hoping that they’re still going to have the availability for you to still contact somebody, pay extra and have them set it up or at least bring it to the room where you need to put it together and take it out of the box and then you take over. There are people that are going to be like Susie. They cannot lift it. They can not move it on their own. Do you remember a time when we move that Bike+? There’s no way I could have pulled that up the stairs by myself. Moving it room to room, I could do. If I had to lift it up the stairs. It’s not happening.

If you want to move your Peloton bike, you have to first get a Tonal.

I was loving what you were saying that they got to actually train on a Tonal to lift that thing upstairs. I agree with that. I like the idea of them packing this thing into a box. I get the Susie Barris thing. You get this box and it weighs 150 pounds.

My guess is you wouldn’t get a box that weighs 150 pounds. You get three boxes that weigh 50 pounds.

The frame still has to be put together and that is heavy.

My larger point is they’re not going to send you one giant thing. That’s not assembling. They can break it up into other boxes and you can get them into place and then set it up. People love their artists series with all the Peloton classes. Think about how excited people are going to get about Peloton’s new artists collaboration with Lego. People love their Legos. The new slogan is, “Everything is awesome.” Seriously, why haven’t I been hired? I’m just saying.

They can’t afford you.

I was talking to a person I know and they have an Echelon. I’m like, “How did you get the Echelon?” They talked about how it’s all packed in there in this one big heavy box. That’s why my mind kept thinking, are they trying to go that in that same line? The smaller the item is, the more condensed it is, and the cheaper it is to ship. They’re trying to save money so they get everything organized but tightly packed in there.

I think they will. The screen is going to be separate. The pedals will be separate and everything else.

Your idea that it’s like, “If you want the old way, it’s $400” or whatever. You can still do it or you can do this version that’s cheaper, but you got to assemble it yourself and it’s plug and play. I don’t think it’s a bad idea if done properly. That’s a big if.

Do you think though that this idea that we got to get back to this aspirational brand, that they will send this thing to you via FedEx?

You can’t do both of those at the same time.

I think the plan is they’re going to sell you the bike and say that XPO is going to deliver it and set it up. After you buy it, they’re going to tell you, “We’re just kidding. You got to set it up yourself.” They’re like, “It works so well with the pricing. We’re now rolling that out to other aspects.”

They say now that the delivery is back in the price. When you look at that $800 price increase for the tread, it has decreased a little bit by the delivery. They start delivering these and you have to put them together yourself, but they don’t decrease the price. It is what I think is going to happen.

In most cases, the people who are making those purchases are going to be new customers. They don’t know what came before.

While I say that the bike is easy to put together, the tread on the other hand scares the shit out of me.

This would explain why we think they’re partnering with Tonal, “Do you want to buy a tread? You got to put it together yourself so first, you need to buy the Tonal.”

Get a Tonal, train on it for six months, come back and get the tread. You can put it together. You can handle it then. You can put it in your cart, then hope that the price doesn’t go up until then.

Finally, we should touch on this real quick, the idea that they might be pushing their content out to other pieces of equipment.

I was surprised that this is even another new story because we’ve talked about this before. Barry has mentioned this before. In my opinion, this is not new information. I was surprised it got picked up everywhere.

The interesting thing to me about it was that he also says in there an option for freemium. The thought is that they’re going to allow their content to be on other devices and you don’t have a subscription. There will be specific content that Peloton is producing that these folks can take on these other devices without paying Peloton anything. That was the interesting part to me. That would be another way to entice people into, “Maybe you do want to get into a subscription and then maybe you want to get into one of our hardware.”

Maybe they won’t put the programs out there, but there will be a certain number of classes and things like that. Maybe they don’t get Power Zone training but they get a certain number of classes that are available. Maybe there are only 20-minute classes and not 45-minute classes or something like that.

It’s the drug dealer model, the first taste is free.

TCO 272 | Running


 It’s very effective.

Uncle Barry has been saying this since he got here. I’m waiting for an actual peek into where this is. Where are we talking about? What do you mean by, “On other pieces of hardware?”

It will be interesting to see which other platforms are willing to accept their content. If I were Nautilus, I would think, “Are people going to use this?” When it’s time to buy them to replace their piece of equipment, they will go, “I enjoy those Peloton classes.” It’s letting the camel’s nose under the tent.

That’s where I’m at. I’m struggling with it like, “Why would they?”

I don’t see a Nautilus doing it. I can make arguments about the different companies that might be willing to do that. On the one hand, I see SoulCycle being an obvious one because they cannot seem to keep up with anything. They seem obvious because they don’t have the ability to do the content at home and keep it pumping on a regular basis. That seems like a good one. On the other hand, I don’t know. I could make an argument where it’s the Nautilus and the iFITs and all that. They would be good because creating content has never been their thing. If they have content that gets added, and then they can keep focusing on creating good equipment, and then Peloton keeps reducing their equipment footprint, everybody wins.

That would work if Nautilus and the iFITs of the world truly are trying to move in the opposite direction. One was going towards content and they’re going towards hardware. I don’t know. It confuses me. That’s what I’m waiting for. Uncle Barry, where are you talking about? Where is this stuff going to be?

There are probably deals happening. Maybe it’s not Tonal that they’re out there talking about. We were talking a while back about whether could it be that there are some legal agreements in place about these hardware costs and things like that. Maybe there’s already stuff in progress that we aren’t privy to yet that’s causing this. It’s already happening. Maybe he has just given us a little taste.

It could be. Maybe it will all explain itself in another couple of months.

It would be interesting to see.

They’ve never been great about being transparent. I’m a little skeptical that it will.

If they’re putting these deals in place, at some point, they have to tell people.

I just meant that it will not make sense on a level that I would like to see. I would like somebody to go, “A plus B equals C.” Retroactively, I’m like, “That’s why you wouldn’t honor your commitment to people. I get it. You were backed in a corner. It all makes sense now.” That’s what I want. I’m probably not going to get that.

I get the impression that if we come to that place, Crystal, and we’re like, “That’s why,” Peloton is going to be like, “Yeah, that’s why. Go with that.”

On that note, John, until next time, where can people find you?

They can find me on my Facebook page or group, Run, Lift and Live. They can find me on Instagram @RunLiftAndLive. They can find me on TikTok, Run, Lift and Live, or they can find me at

Thank you.

Joining us once again is Dr. Jenn Mann, licensed marriage, family and child therapist, and Sports Psychology consultant. She was a five-year national team member in rhythmic gymnastics and sports psychology for USA gymnastics. It’s Dr. Jenn.


I have a tough question for you. This comes from Joe Vogli. I’m not going to read the whole thing because it’s long. They are struggling with how to get their bike to fit correctly. Their shoes, they go numb. They’ve tried dialing in where their seat is and where the handlebars are. They’ve watched the videos. They’ve gone to a showroom. Their question is, is this all in their head because they feel like their body is shaped a little differently or is there something else that they could be doing? Do they need to get through the pain or do they need to truly find a fit that works for them?

That’s an interesting question. First of all, get a physical. Talk to your doctor if you’re having numbness anywhere or if you’re having tingling anywhere. You want to make sure that you don’t have a circulation issue and the bike is just bringing this out for you or any other medical issue where there’s something present and the bike is the catalyst to highlight something that’s already going on in your body. You got to first rule that out.

The next thing I would do, and I know that this is difficult to ask, is I would try to get in touch with an exercise kinesiologist. Those are the people who specifically work with the physicality and the muscles and how you do exercise. I would try to get a virtual appointment with an exercise kinesiologist to see what you may be doing wrong that is knocking your body out of line or causing you to press on some nerve if you’re having tingling.

I would also experiment with cushions on the bike. I had experimented with getting out of the saddle. I spent most of my classes out of the saddle because it’s easier on my back. It’s easier on a lot of parts of my body and that works better for me. You got to find your sweet spot. When you’re having symptoms that are that tangible and real, I would be hesitant to say something as psychosomatic. I think there’s something going on and your job now is to hunt it down to figure out what that is.

Zooming out in more general terms, is there shortcuts or good A/B test to figure out what is psychosomatic and what’s “real?” Just in general with a broad brush.

You always want to rule out everything with your doctor. I don’t care what your friends say or what your spouse says. Unless there is a medical doctor that has examined you, you always want to go to the expert and have that person tell you. Sometimes you may have to go to more than one person. I’ve heard all too many stories of doctors not taking a symptom seriously by someone because they’re younger than one would expect in having that problem. They don’t look the way the doctor expects someone who normally has that problem to look. It’s important to follow your gut feeling if something feels legit like you fall.

I have a friend who’s in her 30s. She had a mole on her arm. She went to the doctor and was slightly askew from psychosomatic, but she looked and she said, “I have a bad feeling about this.” The doctor was like, “You’re 30 years old. I looked at moles for 50 years. That’s not cancerous.” She said, I appreciate that but I want you to biopsy. I have a bad feeling.” The doctor was like, “I knew your father when he was alive,” her father was a doctor, “Just because you’re his daughter, I’ll do it.” Sure enough, it was stage four.

Thank God she had been insistent and listened to her gut and had been assertive. It’s a perfect example of if you have a gut and your doctor is not listening to you, go to another doctor, and insist they do whatever tests you feel are right. Listen to your gut. I’m a big believer both in what I do as a therapist and with medical doctors that you got to listen to the patient. The patient’s gut instinct is very telling. It’s an important belief. If you find that you are having chronic pain or chronic something that is bothering you, you’ve ruled that you’ve gone to all the professionals and you’ve ruled it out. It’s time to go to a therapist and explore it with a therapist. A lot of the time, when pain or an issue is psychosomatic, there’s usually some level of symbolism in it.

For example, I had a client who in the midst of her divorce was getting neck pain. Her husband was a pain in the neck. It was psychosomatic pain. I’m not saying that her neck wasn’t hurting legitimately, but I do think that the stress of it came out in her neck because it was very symbolic of what a pain in the neck he was. I think that we have to look at connecting the dots to what is psychosomatic or an expression of distress or a way out of our physical bodies.

My neck has been hurting. Tom, I’m worried.

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I’m peeing a lot. I guess you pissed me off.

Maybe your prostate is a little enlarged.

We’ve already gone down that route.

I was looking out for my girl, Crystal.

That makes two of us. Thank you so much for all that. Until next time, where can people find you?

People can find me on social media @DrJennMann on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. I post all of my workouts on Insta Stories. You can find me in InStyle magazine, Hump Day With Dr. Jenn.

Thank you.

Cody Rigsby is celebrating eight years at Peloton.

How incredible. I loved watching this video because there were so many moments that I remember. Look at Denis Morton’s hair is so long there. It’s crazy.

Women love the long hair and some of the men too, to be fair.

That is also true. Congrats to Cody. This is awesome.

While we’re speaking of Cody, he was also on the podcast Conversations With Olivia Jade.

Do you remember that on Dancing With The Stars, Olivia Jade was there at the same time? I can’t help but think that is how these two ended up on a podcast. I thought I would put those pieces together.

I recognize the name but I didn’t care about Dancing With The Stars. I guess Cody is re-upped with his publicist or something because he is also featured in InStyle Magazine.

This is the best title that I’ve ever seen somebody do for Cody. It’s Peloton’s Cody Rigsby says self-care is a balance between being wholesome and ‘hoe-some.’

He’s a gardener. It’s unusual to find a gardener in New York City. There’s not a lot of green space. You don’t typically see that. They spelled it wrong.

He also gives skincare tips. I don’t think they spelled it wrong.

The “Hoe” should be “ho.” Hoe is the gardening tool.

I think they were trying not to get in trouble for using it.

It’s the internet. Who’s going to get you in trouble?

Maybe it’s some Millennial that doesn’t know the difference.

They’re called sex workers.

I got to stop saying Millennial. What is the newest generation? They’re even younger. They’re in the workplace now. It’s probably Gen Z.

That makes sense. You’re so old, you don’t even know what comes after Millennial.

I’m feeling my age these days.

Jess King was the keynote speaker at the US Cellular’s Inclusion Summit.

They are focused on building an inclusive and supportive environment, and so is she. She was there showing off her baby bump. There were lots of pictures she shared. It was a whole event. It was up in front of cameras and it was in front of a whole group of people. Congrats to Jess. That’s cool.

PopSugar spotlighted Logan Aldridge.

TCO 272 | Running


They talked about how “can’t” isn’t in his vocabulary. I think it’s a great title for him. He’s incredible and inspirational. He’s been getting a lot of traction. This is one of those things where you see Peloton making a smart hire for an instructor. Not only is he wonderful for Peloton because he’s so focused on adaptive fitness and that’s great, but also I think he already had his own following and he already had a lot of ump behind him from a press standpoint. He’s bringing a lot to the table.

Kendall O’Toole has discovered her countryside.

To be fair, she likes country, but Callie doesn’t usually include country at all. They went to go see Kenny Chesney. They are talking about Dan and Shay and it’s all over the place, but this is Kenny Chesney’s big summer concert. He does country so I know this no-shirt tour that he does every year or whatever it’s called. Dan and Shay were one of the openers. How did she get those tickets?

Because she’s a Peloton instructor?

Look how close they are. I’m a little jealous. I would like to be that close to Kenny Chesney.

We could have been, but we opted to sit in the suite instead.

I would like to come and go as I please.

That is why we got the suite. I would like to sit in the air conditioner if you’re going to subject me to Kenny Chesney. I don’t dislike country music. Kenny Chesney does nothing for me.

I love Kenny Chesney. I actually like Old Dominion more than I like Dan and Shay. Kenny Chesney has some good songs.

He’s got a couple of songs I like but overall it’s like the one over Jimmy Buffett thing. I don’t like Jimmy Buffett. People are freaking out right now because people love that one. Jimmy Buffett is like, “No, thank you.”

Some people are overdone, but I love Kenny Chesney’s song, Who You’d Be Today.

Chelsea Jackson Roberts was on NBC LX.

There are too many. I can’t tell what she was on there. There’s the peacock symbol.

It’s very confusing. I had to go to the Wikipedia entry for NBC LX to try to figure out what it was.

It got broadcasted to a lot of places though, which is excellent for Chelsea. She talked about how to be a positive influence and how to be okay with body image. She talks about how she started with yoga and that yoga actually helped her with her body image. It was a very interesting conversation. If you haven’t got the chance to check it out, regardless of the confusing call sign, I definitely think you should listen.

If you’re trying to figure out where to find it, you can get the link if you sign up for our newsletter at

Get the newsletter. It would be so much easier.

Jess Sims and Kirsten Ferguson made a joint appearance on the Ali On The Run podcast.

They talked about their friendship. It’s funny because so many people have been posting this everywhere. This is probably the most posted Ali On The Run episode I’ve ever seen. People are super excited. These two are known as something in Rona. It’s not like Rosy, but it’s like something in Rona. I know people are out there yelling at me because I can’t remember the name of it. I can remember the name of my own kids sometimes. Don’t take that personally. At any rate, I love this. I love Ali from Ali On The Run. Make sure you listen.

Also, it’s Sydney. Tunde was featured in Women’s Health Magazine.

They talked about her 70-pound weight loss when she was younger like a teenager. She talked about how she got a new sense of purpose and her whole journey of going from a person who never was involved in sports to becoming Tunde. Everybody says #Goals when they look at her arms. That’s pretty incredible.

Ally Love is going to be a celebrity judge at the New York City Wine and Food Festival.

That takes place this fall. It’s presented by Capital One. I didn’t know that they consider themselves New York City’s premier culinary event. I didn’t know New York City had a premier culinary event. I know they’re a big food town.

It’s New York City. They have a premier for everything.

It’s the 15th year they’re doing this. I have never heard of the rest of these people who joined the 15th annual festival lineup.

They got people from the Food Network, but we don’t watch that.

We’re definitely not foodies in this house. I’m hungry though.

The All For One Music Festival is upon us. PopSugar wrote an article about it.

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I’m not excited about this. It’s not a terrible lineup, but the way that it’s structured is so different from what they’ve done in the past. First of all, it falls on my birthday weekend and it is messing up my birthday workout. Second of all, they clumped together the different artists. For example, Wu-Tang Clan. They have most of their classes altogether on Saturday. Sometimes they even take place at the same time. If you wanted to do the Wu-Tang shrink and the Wu-Tang cycling, you couldn’t because they’re at the same time. That might be a bad example. I’m just giving an example and not double check my numbers.

The artists that I am excited about are not paired with instructors that I’m excited about. The whole thing comes off like, “I don’t know what I want to do now.” It’s a neat concept, but for me, it never works because they don’t have any runs at any time that I want to do them live. They don’t have any cycling classes for artists that I’m excited about live. They are sending out gifts and I have no idea how they’re deciding who gets these gifts.

We never know how they decide that.

This one is weird because it’s on the front end. This one they’re randomly sending to people before. Sometimes I can be like, “Maybe if you took a certain number of classes or whatever,” but people are getting their gifts on the front end. I’m like, “What are they basing that on?”

Maybe they did an all-for-one ride around last year.

I have no idea. You get some towels, a bracelet, some cards or something.

Watch your mailboxes, people.

It’ll come in your email box first. Check spam. Don’t contact customer service. We got bigger fish to fry. They got to figure out the price in this tread first.

Peloton is looking to sublet some of the space in their Plano location, which makes sense. If you’ve laid off all these people and you have all this office space, then what?

I totally agree. It’s sad because this was another area that they were looking to expand. In 2021, they built this office or maybe it was 2020. I might be getting my years mixed up.

It has been a while. I feel like we’ve been talking about the Plano facility maybe even longer.

It has been a while. They built that and that was exciting, but then they decided they were going to add on. Now, not only are they not going to expand, but there is a hundred thousand square feet of office space that is going to be up for sublease. It is the right decision. It’s the right call to make to go ahead and reduce that and to be using it to the best of your ability but it’s sad.

It’s another sign, but it’s a natural byproduct. If you have office space sitting there, you might as well try and turn it into a revenue stream. Ultimately, it’s a smart decision, but it is not even a canary in a coal mine because it’s already something that we know is happening so they are just trying to make lemonade. Also, it came out that if you are working from home for Peloton, you’re not anymore.

I have to scroll down to remember exactly how they worded this. It was an interesting way to word it. It’s like you need to come back to work and we expect you to be in at least three days a week. Here’s the quote, “For those of you who don’t want to return to the office, we respect your choice. We hope you choose to stay, but we understand not everyone will.” Doesn’t that sound cold?

It does and this seems to be the line from CEOs lately of like, “You go to be in the office even if it is completely worthless.” It’s that old-school mentality of, “If you’re not here, you must not be working.”

When you get an old guy in charge, this is what happens every time.

Tom Cortese was on a show called Inspired In 15, which is a podcast.

It’s fifteen minutes of him talking about Peloton, how it started, and what his lease has been. I haven’t gotten a chance to listen to it, but I am actually curious because I haven’t heard a lot From Cortese.

Is this his first podcast appearance since The Clip Out?

I think it might be. I know he was never a fan of the Peloton Prophet. Maybe that’s why he decided not to go on any more podcasts.

Finally, for this segment, has an article about how Peloton can help you improve your golf game.

This was written by Edie Wessel. She is part of the PGA. She talks about all the different things that it has helped. She said that it has helped a lot with her mental game, which I was surprised at. I don’t know if there were other aspects as far as strength and things like that that she started doing, but she talked about consistency and inspiration, and being able to train your mind in a different way and focusing in a different way. It’s hard to maintain your focus whenever you’re doing 18 holes of golf. I would not know because I cannot golf to save my life. First of all, no interest. Second of all, I suck at it.

I went golfing once and that’s when I found out that there’s a maximum number of strokes per hole. I did not know that. If there weren’t a maximum number of strokes per hole, I’m pretty sure I would still be there.

I’ve only ever done real golf that time that we went to Top Golf, which I know is not considered real golf. It wasn’t pot pie. That’s what I mean. It turns out I cannot hit a golf ball to save my life. I’m not doing that again, but I think it’s cool that this was written. It’s nice to see people from multiple places getting a benefit.

Joining us once again is Angelo from MetPro here to answer all of your nutrition questions.

It’s great to see you again, guys.

It’s good to see you again to you. I believe we have a tricky question for you. This comes from Stacy. She has a two-part thing here. I feel like she’s vacillating between these two thoughts. One, being in menopause and having two auto-immune diseases mean she has to do three times the work to lose one pound. Also, she struggles with consistency. She goes so hard and long and then stays true to a good regimen, then it blows up and it takes her a long time to get back on track. Help.

Stacy, my heart goes out to you. This is a challenging one, menopause and especially when you factor in that you’re dealing with a few auto-immune. We have lots of clients that fall under that category. It is not the final word. It is not going to determine your outcome. Is it an additional hurdle and challenge? Absolutely, but it’s not going to stop you from making progress. We see people progressing despite these types of things every day. You already know the answer, Stacy, because it was referenced in your question. It is going to be the consistency.

TCO 272 | Running


I get asked all the time, “Does this apply to me because I’m in menopause or I have this hormonal scenario, this, that or the other thing?” We can read between the lines on that. The question is, should I be doing something different or more specific because I have these unique scenarios? Depending on your hormonal circumstance and auto-immune, you need to talk with your doctor about that as far as those sort of specifics. As far as the exercise, nutrition and lifestyle piece that you’re going to apply to that, it doesn’t mean that because you have this scenario, all of a sudden avocado isn’t good. Instead, you want to eat extra peanut butter.

It doesn’t mean necessarily that exercise doesn’t work for you. Simply, what it means is as a general reference, the same good lifestyle advice that we would give any one of our clients is going to be even more important that you’re consistent with it. I’m a big believer in routine. Crystal knows this. Tom knows this. We have these conversations all the time. If you were a fly on the wall and one of my conversations or Crystal’s with our clients, what you would hear is, “Yes, Johnny. Good. I’m glad you lost 5 pounds. Did you follow your routine?”

At the end of the day, as coaches having done this a few times, I’ve found that whatever happens in the next week or two is less relevant than whether or not you’re able to establish a sustainable routine. If you can establish a sustainable routine, I can predict a long-term outcome for you. If you don’t have a sustainable routine, circumstances may adjust your body weight. You may lose 10 pounds. You may gain 10 pounds, but there is nothing that is suggestive that if we fast forward six months, a year, or two years, you’re going to be in an improved state.

Routine truly is the key. It starts with simple meal planning where you can be consistent. Don’t bite off more than you can chew. No pun intended. Start simple. I’m a big believer in clean snacks, particularly, afternoon snacks because we go the longest consecutive amount of hours on average between lunch and dinner. Prep an afternoon snack. Stacy, I want to encourage you to participate in daily or near daily exercise. Even if it means it’s a very short workout session or exercises session. The reason is because a lot of people will workout and workout hard, but they don’t have a set time. It’s not part of their daily routine.

I’m fine with daily being Monday through Friday or whatever works for your schedule. Most days of the week, having it part of your ongoing lifestyle, even if it’s five minutes because it’s something that once it’s in your daily routine, you can anchor to it, add and build on it slowly over time until it’s a habit that there’s nothing to build on.

I’m going to say consistency over intensity at first. Once you’ve made it a routine and a habit and once you have good habits around your nutrition and food culture, it’s going to be a beautiful thing. You’re going to find it’s easier to parlay that into a consistent and ongoing versus where most of us find ourselves, which is a burst of, “I’m dialed in,” followed by a month or two of, “I’ve fallen off track.” Stacy, feel free to reach out to us to talk about what more specifics could look like for you based on goals because that’s what people need to take into consideration. A lot of people ask, “What should I do?” We joke on these pieces we do a lot. The answer is always, it depends.

We have to factor in what are you used to and what your goal is. Based on those two things, we’re going to be able to take a very honest look at what our actual levers are based on what you’re currently used to and what our goals are. When we figure out what levers that leaves us with, that is what’s going to help us get ultra-specific in this step, that step, and the other step. The pieces that are going to be universal, no matter what we determine your levers would be, Stacy, are going to be a consistent routine as close to daily exercise as possible, even if it’s modest to start with and a routine of food-prepping and some simple snacks. Those are going to be at the core of it. You’ll do great, Stacy. Stick with it. You will make progress.

It’s like the Grand Canyon. It’s not one drop of water. It was consistent drops of water, then you too can be a giant hole in the ground. Somewhere I lost the thread.

Tom should be a motivational speaker.

It’s a beautiful hole in the ground. How many people travel just to look at that hole on the ground? Angelo, on the outside chance that people want things like this tailored for them, how can they find you?

You can visit us at Thanks so much, guys.

Thank you.

If you feel bad about all the bad news that has been afflicting Peloton, take some solace in the fact that they’re not alone. SoulCycle is closing twenty stores across the nation and laying off 800 people.

I would feel bad for them, but they suck.

I’m curious to know what happens if you traded in your Peloton for those 47 free classes, and then they closed the store that you go to.

I’ve seen other people post the notification they got in general. It’s like, “We’re closing the store nearest you, but you can join us over at this other store.” My guess is it’s like what I was talking about earlier. There are multiple locations. They just reroute you to another one still.

Sometimes, if you only have a few in a market, you could go from having a store 10 minutes from you to having a store 30 minutes from you.

That’s why you need to get a Peloton.

That’s a big deal. That’s why you get a Peloton, so you don’t have all the commute time.

That’s the biggest reason.

Boxing bootcamps have a new schedule.

There’s a new schedule across the board. We talked about that in the last episode. Selena is going to be teaching the live ones. The first one kicks off on Tuesday the 23rd. She’s excited about it. We should all show up and support her because she is awesome.

If you want to complain about this live schedule change, I wouldn’t recommend it because she boxes.

She is pregnant. You got that going for you. It might slow her down a little bit.

Even if you win now you hit a pregnant girl.

You shouldn’t hit her. You could run. I didn’t mean you should hit her.

I was talking about boxing.

I don’t think either of us could take her, even pregnant. Let’s just not.

We have got three birthdays. Two on August 20th. The first is Jill Foley. The second and more important is our very own, Clip Out Crystal.

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I forget every year that I share a birthday with Jill Foley until we do the segment. I’m like, “We have the same happy birthday.” Thank you, Tom, and Happy birthday to Jill.

Also, August 24th is Aditi Shah’s birthday.

Happy birthday to Aditi. It is Leo’s season.

Joining us in this episode is Carey Socol. This is not her first time in the lion’s den as it works. She was on the show a long time ago.

Do you know how long ago? October of 2018. Can you believe that? It was episode 78 and we’re in 270 something.

It was not on Zoom. I didn’t have to make sure I looked okay. I could just talk.

That was back in the day when we didn’t do video.

We were still using Skype-a-phone.

Carey, the last time you were on, we were talking about you going through a journey where you were going to do a marathon in every state. You were nearing the end of your day. I say the end because I think you had eighteen to go. You were under twenty. I know that.

I was definitely under twenty then. Probably even less because I know I was a year ahead of myself. I was ready to go then COVID happened. I was happily closer to the end than I should have been because I was trying to do it before my 50th. I got one marathon in 2020 right in January then nothing. I was close enough. I must have ten left when we spoke then.

That was the number that was in my head but I didn’t think that could be right. When you’re talking about the end of something and you’re starting with 50, it’s like a sliding scale.

Let me ask you this. A couple of years back, there were some rumblings about making Puerto Rico a state. What happened to it then? Are you like, “Puerto Rico can go F themselves,” or would you be like, “I got to go to Puerto Rico now?”

I would go do it if you add in another state. Think about it. I did the year in Boston. I even mentioned I had done the year of the bombings and I didn’t finish. I was a mile out and so many people is saying, “It counts.” I’m like, “No, it doesn’t.” I went back the next year and I did it. Anything that pops up, I will feel like I have to do it.

You’re a completist and speaking of completing. I can’t believe it has been four years since we last had this conversation. You were working on that and you finished it up in 2022, but the last one obviously was very different. Tell us about that.

After that one in 2020, which was in Nevada. I did Lake Mead, which was very beautiful and a very small marathon. The Hoover Dam, we’re going to talk about Howie, that was one of his bucket list things. It was the Hoover Dam Marathon. It was Lake Mead. I went from that marathon, got in the car and we raced to the Hoover Dam. We had not showered. Nothing. That was 47 because I was age 47. It was my 47 state. That was a trifecta. I had nothing for the rest of that year. I was supposed to finish up in 2020.

Luckily, I had banked two years before I turned 50. In 2021, I went and did Iowa. That was my second to last one. I did Oklahoma. I did Tulsa when I was 48 and Iowa was 49. Iowa was fun because it was the last of the 50 states I had ever visited and the same with Howie. We were like, “We’ve been in all 50 states and we finished it together.” He didn’t run a marathon in all 50 but he had stepped foot in all 50 states. The last one, which has been planned for 2020 was moved to 2021, which was Hawaii. I had planned that year in advance because my best friends lived there and where else are you going to finish? You finish in Hawaii.

That’s a good place to finish.

That’s quite a shift from Iowa. I was trying to figure out, does this say anything about your opinion of these states as they trail off at the end? You’re like Oklahoma and Iowa.

Not at all. It’s fun to look at the way my states turned out. There was a pocket of the Northeast at first. It didn’t happen in weird ways but it would honestly tell me where I could get to. I did a lot. After a conference, I would go jet somewhere. I would always try to make it where I could get to, depending on when they were offered or the dates. Two weeks to the day before Hawaii, Howie passed away which couldn’t have been more crazy and devastating for every reason under the sun but to think about like two weeks.

The last thing he said to me was when we were leaving upstate and he was staying in the upstate for another night. I was with my friend who was coming with us to Hawaii and he looked at us. He goes to her because he knew he wouldn’t see her. He goes, “I’ll see you in Hawaii.” It was one of the last things. We talked the next morning. I spoke to him after that but that was the last one I saw him.

After he died, it was one of those questions. Do I do it? Do I not do it? I had a lot of everything. It was a blur. First, it was a blur but he wanted me to do it. He would be like, “Girlfriend, get your butt to Hawaii and finish what you started.” I had the support of his sons who were like, “We’re coming,” and everyone around me. I knew in my heart that he would want me to do it. Sitting home on that day and not doing it would have been far worse. I would sit there with more agony and grief than finishing something that he was so proud of and I was so proud of. It was F-up for so many reasons. At that time, it was a complete blur, but I did it.

I can’t even imagine what was going through your head. Twenty-six miles is not a short time. You’re alone a lot in your head. I can’t even imagine how you kept going. You must have the strongest brain on the planet to be able to do that.

Doing these marathons, I always say, you break it down and you do an hour then two hours. You could break it down. That marathon was obviously unique. I wrote this somewhere. I was running on an emotional fuse at that point. I knew how to do a marathon. I knew I could do the physical part. I wasn’t worried about, “Am I going to freak out and break down?” I didn’t know how I would react. I had so much support. You can’t imagine but it was coming at me from everywhere, the support for me to do this and to be there and to get through it. That marathon gives me chills thinking about it.

I’ve run a lot of marathons. I’ve run a lot alone and I like running alone. I don’t have any problem with it but that one, it was like he was there with me. Hawaii, which we had never been to together, is a very spiritual place. A lot of the run felt very spiritual and being there was beautiful. I don’t know if you saw his boys jump in at the end and finished the last 50 yards with me. I never cry during the marathon but that was surreal. It was wild.

That was so touching that they both came to Hawaii to be with you in their own grief. I’m sure it was probably a little cathartic for them too. They knew how important it was to him.

To be honest, we had invited them and they had conflicts before Howie died. I understood. It’s hard. It’s far. It’s all this. I’m also someone opposite of Howie. I don’t mind putting my head down and doing it then telling people after, “I don’t need the fanfare.” It was special that it was my last one. I had been working towards it and my parents were coming and I had friends there. There was going to be enough support for me that I felt good enough. When he passed, the boys are like, “We’re coming.” It was immediate. It gave me permission. It gave me that and him. He would have been so happy they were there with me.

It was such a magical weekend. We were so heartbroken, but we also came together with my family and friends. It was so beautiful too. It was such a beautiful spiritual weekend together that bonded my relationship with them. It was wonderful. Not to mention, as I’m flying there, we all had to laugh because I’m flying on an airplane and we all have internet now. I don’t know if I told you this. It was when Sex and the City dropped. I’m on the plane flying to Hawaii. We all have service on planes now. It’s not like I don’t have internet. I’m with my daughter and I’m with some people. I’m getting texts like, “Don’t look at anything.”

People are talking about the whole storyline of Sex and the City and the death of Mr. Big on a Peloton. Her name is Carey. I was so in grief but I had to laugh. It was like, “Are you kidding?” He would have laughed. There were certain parts of it that he would have been like, “Really? That’s hilarious. Look at this.” There’s a whole thing.

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I feel like he would have been like, “Can you believe they made this about me?”

He would have thought it was hilarious. When I got there, the boys met me. We didn’t all fly together. We all had to be like, “Really?” You had to laugh. The timing was bizarre.

For some in our audience that maybe don’t know the full story, Howie passed away in the exact same way that Mr. Big did on Sex and the City. For people that maybe aren’t familiar with the story or hadn’t connected the dots, that’s what we’re discussing.

To be honest, I haven’t yet watched Sex and the City. I won’t watch it. I’m not watching it. Also, we know the Peloton was part of it but we don’t know with Howie. I don’t want to have anyone walk away thinking they know. It didn’t happen like Mr. Big exactly but Peloton was part of it. He was in a very happy place. He was in his happiest of places upstate. He was in a good place, and we were in a good place. It’s devastating where we’re talking about this. Dates come up and things are tricky.

It’s fresh and hard. Grief is so weird because you can’t share it with other people. You can tell other people about it but nobody can experience how you’re experiencing it.

Someone said to me, “It’s not linear. It’s all over the place. It comes at different times.” Sometimes I appear like I’m living my life. His thing was always like, “You didn’t die. You have to live.” I hear that motto. This summer was usually our time together. We always take a big trip and we could focus. My kids would be away. My goal is to keep moving and keep experiencing because that’s what he wants. It doesn’t mean you can post a happy picture but the next minute you’re missing him desperately and crying. I’m not someone that wants to show too much grief. It’s not my nature but it’s always there.

I get that. It can feel performative.

It always weirds me out when people post a selfie of themselves crying. I don’t mean that they’re not really feeling that emotion but if you had to pause the emotion to pick up the phone and take a picture of it, “How is that then real?” I think that when you do share any amount of grief, whether it’s a little or a lot, everybody has a different level of what they’re comfortable with, what they’re comfortable viewing, what they’re comfortable posting and it’s such a personal thing.

It is. Everyone is a little different with social media in how they want to use it. It’s because we’re using it. Let’s be honest. There was one post. I did a couple maybe at the beginning of the summer, which was not like me. It was a story. It was like, “I’m missing him so much.” I hadn’t done a couple of those right when he passed but that’s all I could think about. There was one at the beginning of summer. I’m like, “I can’t believe I did that.” I don’t typically do this. I’m missing him fiercely and I posted it.

I did take a very sobbing picture of myself. I was not there for Jenn’s member ride. I was away, but all his men were there, all of my dear men. If anything has gotten me through, the support of those dudes had been huge. Watching them and when she did play the Who song, I freaking lost it. It was important that those gentlemen were there for me. I feel like they’ve been there because Peloton and Jenn brought them together but they’re bigger than that. Their friendship is so deep and the love they had for Howie. I say this to them all the time. They gave him the best friendships of his life for the last two years before he died.

He never had a crew like that. He never had solid guys that got him and loved him and could listen to his jokes over and over again. God blessed them. They were so wonderful. I said this to you because I didn’t have to be in the room. I didn’t want it to be about me. I didn’t want it to be about Howie. I wanted it to be about them and this beautiful friendship and support for Peloton because Howie was the biggest Peloton fan and supporter out there. I was on a beach in Tel Aviv and I was sobbing. I took a picture and I sent it to those guys. I’m like, “I am sobbing,” but I was so happy they were there and they had a great time.

That ride was a bundle of emotions for me. Obviously, I’m not feeling anything like what you’re feeling, so I cannot imagine. How has that interaction been? You love Peloton but Howie brought you to Peloton. How has that been for you?

It took me a long time to get back on the bike. I run a lot with the app all the time and that’s always felt very different because I don’t have a tread. It has always felt different to me. It was certainly hard. It took me a long time to get back on the bike. I’m over that part of it now. I think for a while, the community and Jenn’s community were so devastated and supportive. I have to say I still get joy now. I hope this resonates with people that ride with Jenn or have #Godnick. It touches me to see the #Godnick. I can’t believe it.

It would touch him so much that it’s fun when I take either a live class or any class. I see people with that hashtag. I only high-five people I know but I will make sure to high-five them all. I want them all to know he would be so touched. That part gets me. I struggled for sure at the beginning. There was a lot of sadness. There’s a lot of concern. I struggled with it because I felt he was mine. I had to share him with a lot of people that I knew cared about him and knew that Jenn cared about him and his men cared about him but it was hard. We had a deep special thing.

You did. It’s obvious. You could see it a million miles away. He talked about it all the time. He posted about it all the time. You were the love of his life. It was very clear.

Thank you. Sometimes people like all of that, “Everyone loved him.” I’m like, “Stop. This was my person.” At the end of the day, I needed to shut it out. I closed off a lot of people and I kept my circle very tight and only talk to a certain amount that respected that. No one was doing anything wrong. It was just that my connection with him felt so personal and I needed to protect it like, “This was my guy. Everyone is mourning someone but this was my person. This was my every day a million times a day person.” It was hard but then it eases up. Everyone is doing it out of love.

My dad was telling me. He ran into a friend of his. This guy that has been around successful guy. They’re talking about life and whatnot. The guy is telling, “I ride my Peloton, this and that.” I think my dad said, “Who’s your instructor?” He said, “Jenn,” and my dad said, “Did you ever hear her mention Howie Godnick?” He goes, “Are you kidding me? Yes.” He said that he was with me. He lost it. He’s like, “You knew Howie Godnick?” It’s funny that people will be like that. I was in Italy and a rider was like, “I knew you were in Israel. Jenn mentioned.” Howie touched a lot of people and that’s special. I do appreciate that every day. Now, I can take that more.

You are so eloquent with your words and so careful and thoughtful about other people’s feelings. I can tell you, I would not be as nice as you are about it. I don’t mean that I shouldn’t be or that you’re wrong to be that way. I have a hard time with that and I always have. It is a special relationship whenever you’re in a relationship with somebody. That’s different. I’m sure that I will go through my version of that someday if Tom passes before me.

I don’t think you will deal with the same outpouring, so you’ll be okay.

It’s going to be different because it’s Peloton but everywhere we go in Saint Louis because you’ve been in radio and marketing. There’s always somebody that knows you. There are always a lot of people that think that they know you. I’m like, “They don’t know him the way I know him.” I can’t even imagine.

It’s real. I did feel like a lot of people are taking ownership of him during that time. I had the people that I call and I would not be this eloquent and not this nice and be like, “They need to back off.” I would say it privately because I was in such grief and mourning. I’m good at shutting some stuff off and not watching it and not looking at it and not having notifications and protecting myself.

It took me a while. I pushed a lot of people away at the beginning for a while, then I slowly was letting them in. I think it was important that he was mine and his children and his men. They knew him. That’s what matters but it has taken me a half month out and it’s still painful and it will be. He was larger than life. I say this to Andrew, “I’m screwed.” He was so larger than life. How do you find someone that was so funny?

I admit, Carey. That is a tough act to follow.

Andrew says, “Yes, you are. You’re screwed.”

You were spoiled by Howie in every way.

It’s very unique. I’m also grateful.

I always loved how close you guys were and how you did everything together. I feel like you have this unique relationship where you were very close but you also maintained your separate lives. I was always fascinated by that because it’s so healthy. It’s so adult and modern. I’ve never seen anybody successfully pull it off the way you guys do.

We live four blocks apart by chance. At the time we met, my kids were younger. His were older. That’s not sexy, coming in and raising my young kids. That’s not fun. Let me come over and get a break. It became our thing. We liked it. I recommend it. I can’t imagine now how people live together. It’s a nice break. You get to be with each other when you want to be. The last year and a half when we bought the house together, that was our home but we still didn’t live there full time together. We get to be alone up in our own space.

TCO 272 | Running


If Crystal kicks me out after this interview, we’re going to have one of those not-so-eloquent conversations.

You might not mind it. You might be like, “As long as I have a good place.” A lot of people didn’t know it. I don’t know how many people knew that we didn’t live together but we lived four blocks. I didn’t have to pack. It’s close.

It’s still fascinating to me.

You see the potential appeal of it. It’s nice to have your own space even though you have your own space within your home. It’s different.

You get excited. You make a point of it. You go there and if you’re not in the mood and you’re being a jerk, “I’m not coming over.” It did work for us and it was evolving. My kids were getting older and we were evolving. That was going to probably change at the right time for us.

I think it’s cool that you were able to do that. I’m too needy. I like having constant attention.

I got the constant attention, Crystal. It’s just very different. It wasn’t like I didn’t hear from him but we were in touch. He was mine. People think they knew him because he did reach out and he was always there for people but they have no idea. I’m still Pelotoning in the summer. I like to do it a lot. I did go in for one. I got to go to Matty’s first member class and he’s such a great energy sweet guy. That was fun. Hopefully, I’ll be back soon. Although, it’s so different.

You’ve been around Peloton since the beginning. What is it like comparatively?

It’s completely different. People that have lived like we did a 23rd Street, it was so easy and fun. I said this the last time we spoke. I was not a spinner. I was a runner during the early days of spinning when Howie was spinning but I was never a spinner. He got me into Peloton because he was always running or on a bike. It wasn’t dancing and I’m not a dancer. It’s very different. That was such a community. It was like a hangout.

I would go home from work and stop there and take a class. It would be no big deal. I could see it coming even before COVID. This is now going to be the Today show. This is now going to be SNL-like getting tickets. It’s a whole show now. It’s nobody’s fault. It’s the evolution of it. It’s hard when you knew before to roll with it. If you know now, that’s all you’re going to know. It’s going to feel like a TV show and you’re going to be in it. It’s very fancy. When I went, it was very fancy. Luckily, I don’t care. I’ve known the instructors that I need to know or wanted to know from very early on. I consider them friends. I can go and see who I want to see. I like to take a spin class but we do have the bike.

You don’t have to. It’s also different because you live in New York too. It’s easier to let go of that. I don’t feel like it’s any secret. I’m a little bitter about it because I can’t just take off and go there. It’s so difficult to get those classes now. To try to make a trip around it is almost impossible.

I was saying to someone, “I appreciate that. I don’t need to go anymore. It should be for the out-of-towners. I went and I’m happy.” I’m sure I’ll go for one. I’ll get one class with a spin. I’ll do one spin class. I don’t need to go. I don’t need to pay whatever money when I have the bike here. I don’t need to do that. I do agree with you. Locals who have done it should let other people have their turn.

You’re the nicest person ever.

Enough is enough. If you’ve been there a million times, what are you proving?

What are you doing with marathons? I know you like to run. I know you’re going to continue to do that. How does that look?

I’m still running. I ran another one. I ran Brooklyn in April. I’m gearing up for three more in the fall.

Is it hard to stay motivated when you had that big goal and now it’s like, “There’s one more?”

It’s such a good question, Tom, because running became a thing that it’s so me. I came back from eating my way through Israel and Italy. I’ve literally run 50 miles since I got back. It’s my thing. It’s what I enjoy. I do realize no one is going to be as excited about my marathons anymore. I did it but enough with your marathon. I get it. I’ve done 66 marathons. I’m going to do 100. That’s now my new goal. I’m like, “100? That’s only three a year.”

Before 60, I want to do 100. I have three more ready for 2022. I’m going to do New York every time I can. Howie and I love to travel then. They were fun. What I do want to do is the majors. I want to do Berlin. I was supposed to do Berlin. I’m deferring it because I have a conference. but Berlin, and London. Tokyo, I want to do it because that’s the major. That would be fun. I’m going to try to do some that are easy to get to.

I’m going to do Newport Rhode Island and Delaware because that’s easy, without spending too much money on travel anymore. I’ll try to add them up. I have some friends that are finishing 50. I want to finish with them and I’ll support them. That will be fun. I think my friend, Gary is going to do Napa. I’m like, “Okay. I’ll do that. I think it’s fun.” I’m going to keep going. It’s ingrained in me that it’s something I just do. It won’t be as exciting.

I feel the same way about jokes. I’ve told jokes in 37 states. That’s my goal.

At Howie’s memorial, either his son or his partner said that when he was the valedictorian of his law school, he opened his speech with a joke. That was his opening and that’s so Howie. He could get away with it.

So can Tom. I could never, Carey.

I could make Howie laugh. It was very secretive but no one else.

I don’t believe that. You make me laugh all the time. What about like the ones in Antarctica? Are you going to hit those too? Are you going to do one on every continent?

That would be cool. If I do the majors, that’s Europe and Asia.

You don’t have much left.

I would. I’m game for that. I have a friend who was talking about Antarctica. Don’t put anything past me. If someone said, “This is what we’re doing and let’s go,” I’m sure I would do it.

TCO 272 | Running


You’re not going to start switching to ultramarathons suddenly?

No, although, two of my best friends who I used to run marathons with them. One of them is going to finish his 50 states soon but they switched to Ironman. She announced it. This was six months before Howie died. She announced it and Howie goes, “Uh-oh.” I’m like, “I’m going to finish my 50,” but I grew up as a swimmer so it makes sense for me to try to do triathlons.

Not so much ultra but tris. I’ve been putting it off with so much commitment. I feel like once maybe the kids are out of the house, I’ll try to do some triathlon. The other day, I got the wrong mail in my mailbox. It’s a triathlete. I’m like, “Is this a sign?” I do need to do one. I say it all the time. I did grow up as a swimmer. I have that piece which is always typically the hardest part.

That’s true. When we were putting together a relay team for Atlantic City, we had a tough time finding a swimmer.

That’s my first sport. Just like the first language, swimming is my first sport. I have to do it.

I’m sure you will.

I think I will. I still have the motivation, Tom. I’ll say a million times that running, the bike, and all that is so much more for me than it is for anything else. It’s always been like that. I needed to clear my head. I needed to not kill anybody. All of that.

So far, you’ve not killed anyone that we know of. So far so good.

What about if a Peloton comes out with a rower? Are you going to add the rower into your life?

I don’t even have room for the tread. I thought I wanted a tread upstate and it didn’t fit there. I don’t have the space for it. I like to run outside. I’ve never been a rower, so I can’t imagine. If I ever moved to the burbs or somewhere with space, I would probably do it all.

If you ever want to come to the Midwest, we got lots of space here. It’s one thing we got.

Are you going to get the rower?


You’ll get the rower. I feel like we need that stuff.

We need arm strength.

I figure you’d be like, “I don’t need to row. I know how to swim.”

That’s true but I don’t have a pool. I do an arm thing almost every other day. I do a ten-minute arm every other day on the Peloton app. I do meditation like a maniac all the time.

That seems like the wrong way to do meditation. I think you’re missing the point.

You are right. I do them a lot. I sleep to a meditation every night.

That’s good because it makes your meditation skills stronger. It’s like a muscle and it makes it better for your brain. The time that you cannot focus, clear your mind and get better every time you do it. That’s wonderful. Have you tried Tunde’s arms program? Have you done that one?

No. I bookmark every ten-minute arms class to everyone and on the bike because I don’t like to get on the ground.

I can’t see my screen. They have been on bikes so I get off but I want them to be on the bike so I can stand up for their whole arms. I go back and I do whoever. I’ll pick whoever I haven’t done and I do them all. I do that. I haven’t done her arms. She’s hard. They’re all good.

Her arms are like #goals.

They’ve been copyrighted.

They should be if they haven’t.

The exercises get me. I still use it. In fact, I had to call help for the first time, the service line. The guy looking at my stats is the sweetest guy on the help desk. He was saying, “I’m looking at your runs and your rides and your strength and your meditation.” He was a nice guy. He was going on and on. He was so sweet. I’m like, “Thank you.”

It’s weird to think that they can see all that. You’re like, “Should this be protected by HIPAA?”

It’s a little weird but he was so sweet. He was like the most earnest guys like, “Carey, look at all what you’ve done. Look at all of this.” He was so sweet and helpful. It was just my internet.

TCO 272 | Running


It wasn’t even your Peloton but he took care of you. How wonderful.

I was having issues here and it had nothing to do with the bike but he was very sweet. He made me feel good.

That’s hilarious. I love that. We need to make sure people know your leaderboard name so you can get a ton more followers.

I am a MarathonMom. I am the original if you see MarathonMom1 or any other marathon.

I saw 87 and I was like, “Does that mean there are 86 others or is that her year? What does that mean?” I was confused.

Who knows. There are underscores and exclamations but when it’s MarathonMom, that’s me.

When someone tries to get MarathonMom and they can’t, it’s because of you.

I have had it since 2015.

You got it back when Marion was still a coach.

That’s how we found it. He bought me the bike and gave me the name. He’s like, “You can change it.” I’m like, “No, that’s fine.” I am MarathonMom still and that will stay. I asked them, “No one can take Godnick, right?” It was still on my bike. I’m like, “No one can take it?” They’re like, “No, it’s there.”

That’s good to know. Is that an everybody thing or is that because they were like, “This is Howie.” I ask because I didn’t know what does happen when you pass away.

I’m not sure but I remember when I asked them, I was like, “It’s still active on my bike.” I don’t know.

I’m glad either way. I can’t imagine. It must always be for Howie.

Forever. When I finally go in there, I’ll try to ask for bike 11, even though I don’t think it’s the same spot.

It’s not because it’s a different studio but it’s the number. I’ll be watching you falling.

If I can ever get in.

I know the feeling.

I thought I was going to go to one and I never got the word, so I didn’t go. It’s okay. Other than that, I did go to Matty’s class. I’m not complaining.

Since we always wrap these up with the same thing. I know you’ve already answered once but you probably don’t remember what you said and we don’t either. If you say the same thing, it won’t matter. Do you have any advice for people who are just entering the world of Peloton?

Have fun with it. There’s nothing serious about it. I’m the last person that listens to what they instruct on the ride. I do a lot of my own thing. It’s to be in a class. It’s to be holding yourself accountable. Find a routine with it but have fun with it. It does not have to be serious. It could be 20 minutes or 30 minutes. It could be anything. It could be ten-minute arms that you don’t get on the bike. I think it doesn’t have to be serious. Make it a fun part of your day and consistent. I love doing it. I still love doing it. Before work, I get up at 5:00 and I ride every morning. I like it. I like to have fun and find different instructors. I’m a big Denis fan if anyone cares. I think he is hilarious and great.

He’s so smart.

Everyone knows how I love Jenn but I teased her when I saw her when everyone was giving her all this attention. I’m like, “Jenn, I was so tempted to get on your page and say, ‘You know what? His favorite instructor was Sam.’” She laughed because he loves Sam Yo. It would be like, “Enough of the Jenn. He loves other people too.” It’s a joke and she laughed. She’s like, “You should do that.” Find instructors and have fun, then change them up. I go through phases. Sometimes I love some, and then I’m like, “Oh.” Anyone would be with any of us. You get sick of one and you switch back and circle around.

I love how real you are. That’s great.

I’m so screwed. I’m like, “Sam Yo was his favorite. It’s not you.” Sam Yo was second, and Christine too.

I was thinking that. He did love a lot of instructors because he would talk about them.

He’s a fan. There are a couple he did not like but we will not mention them.

We’ll save that for after the convo.

We’ll record that after this and it will be on our Patreon.

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If you want it for your special, I can give you a little scoop. He’s gone. He wouldn’t care. A lot of times, I’ll say something to someone. I’m like, “That’s so inappropriate,” but he would love that. He would say that inappropriate thing that I’m calling. It’s something silly. He would be all for it.

Carey, I appreciate you sharing this with us, sharing yourself, sharing you and Howie. I appreciate it. I have always been a big fan of your relationship and both of you are amazing people.

We’re big fans of yours too from the beginning. He got a kick out of you both and was supportive of what you guys did and how you did it. Much love right back to you, guys.

Thank you very much.

I guess that brings this episode to a close. Until next time, where can people find you?

People can find me on Facebook at They can find me on Instagram, Twitter, and the Peloton leaderboard @ClipOutCrystal.

You can find me on Twitter @RogerQBert or Facebook at You can find the show online on While you’re there, like the page and join the group. Of course, don’t forget our newsletter at That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep pedaling and running.


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About Carey Socol

TCO 272 | RunningDirector of College Counseling @LREI. Official 50 state marathon finisher. And proud mama of Charlie and Romy.






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