TCO 308 | Peloton Med Community

308. Mariana Fernandez Comes To The Tread! Plus Our Interview With Dr. Mark Shapiro

TCO 308 | Peloton Med Community


  • We break down the earnings call.
  • Post-Class recommendations are rolling out on iOS.
  • The Tread celebrates its 5th anniversary.
  • Peloton is hosting a Mother’s Day event.
  • Peloton Apparel had a Mother’s Day Post.
  • Peloton is looking for mother/child stories.
  • Dr. JumpRope looks to set a world record on a Peloton.
  • Judge shuts down class action suit over past purges.
  • Dr. Jenn –  Striking a balance between “have-to” and “want to.”
  • Mariana Fernandez is coming to the Tread.
  • Emma Lovewell was on CBS This Morning.
  • Emma was also featured in Elle Magazine.
  • Emma also has partnered with Michiru.
  • Becs came in 2nd at the NYRR Shape + Health Women’s Half Marathon.
  • Susie Chan was on the Runners World UK Podcast.
  • Susie not only FINISHED bad water but came in in the top 10.
  • Cody Rigsby is participating in PopSugar’s Play/Ground event.
  • Bradley Rose was on the Marketing Unfiltered.
  • Christine was keynote speaker at United Way luncheon.
  • Robin attended BTIG commission for charity day and met Bill Clinton.
  • Robin also explained Swagger Points…kinda.
  • Robin was on CNBC.
  • Jenn Sherman posted a flashback to her first Peloton photo shoot.
  • Jeffery McEchern ran a half marathon.
  • Angelo – What’s the best way to eat post-workout?
  • Amazon has ended Halo.
  • This Week At Peloton.
  • Sam Yo is teasing something unique for his Star Wars ride.
  • Jess King has release part one of her EDMEDU series.
  • Marcel Maurer posted fun balance challenge .
  • Birthdays – Susie Chan (May 10).

All this plus our interview with Dr. Mark Shapiro!

Watch the episode here


Listen to the podcast here


Mariana Fernandez Comes To The Tread! Plus Our Interview With Dr. Mark Shapiro

I don’t know if you remember, but Big Sur was this weekend.

I’ll pretend it did not consume every thought I’ve had.

I am so tired. You wouldn’t understand.

It was a big weekend for you, Tom. You did do a lot.

You completed it. You were worried as usual for nothing.

For everybody out there, if I had not made myself accountable by telling you that I was doing this, I don’t think I would’ve finished this race. There were blisters.

You had more blisters than feet.

They weren’t in the same places as last time. Those of you who tune in, you’ll know that I had bad blisters whenever I did 26.2 miles on my treadmill, and they were on the sides of my feet. This time, these were underneath my feet where my feet hit the pavement over and over again. The only thing that got me through were Christina and Dr. Jenn saying things to me and distracting me, and the reminder that it still didn’t hurt as bad as that freaking road rash when the car hit me. I was like, “This is temporary and it’ll be over soon.” Also, the first-aid guy tried to get me to stop.

He didn’t say it, but he said it.

He was like, “Are you sure you can finish?” I was like, “That’s not even an option, dude.”

It was like the EMT equivalent of your wife going, “No, it’s fine. You do what you think is best.”

I was like, “You better put those band-aids on there, and let’s go because there’s no stopping. I will be doing this.” It happened and I got through it. If anyone is ever thinking about doing Big Sur, it is a gorgeous course. I know people say that, but seeing it was different.

It was great. I saw it because we drove it afterward.

Tom wasn’t out there.

I don’t have any other secret announcements for you. I didn’t do Big Sur and not tell anybody, but it was stunning.

I recommend that if you are going to do this course, you wait until after you’ve done it, and then drive the course.

It would be demoralizing to see that hill.

That 2-mile hill is a monster.

I was winded just from driving it.

Speaking of wind, in the 30-year history of the race, this was the windiest year.

That’s 25-mile-an-hour headwinds.

It was insane. I felt every bit of the wind. I feel bad because I held Dr. Jenn and Christina back. These two ladies could have easily done this way faster than me. I came in second to the last place in my age group, 57th out of 58 from 40 to 44-year-olds. I got smoked by an 81-year-old. Her average time over the entire marathon was 11 minutes and 32 seconds. She is my new hero.

She knew that the clock was ticking.

I’m pretty sure I saw her pass me too. Many great people were out there. I met people along the way. I was recognized a couple of times and made some new friends. I think this was my highest strain ever, 20.4.

Higher than when you got hit by the car?

It stopped that day, so who knows? I don’t even know what my strain was that day. It was pretty rough. I did an elevation gain of 1,839 feet, burned 2,000 calories, and walked.

Which we promptly ate for dinner.

It wasn’t that bad for dinner, and then 48,000 steps.

I think you’re forgetting the frozen yogurt.

Honestly, I don’t think we did that bad for dinner. Maybe you, but not me. I burned 2,000 calories just walking. I was okay with some frozen yogurt for dinner. I felt I deserved it.

For sure. You were saying, “I don’t know that we ate 2,000 calories,” and I was like, “We had a big old thing of frozen yogurt.”

I still don’t think it was 2,000 calories, whatever.

You earned it. I also got new customized BibBoards.

These BibBoards were so cool. I was so appreciative because to put these on, you don’t have to poke holes in your shirt, given that it is a very nice shirt. It was my “Just effing do it” tank top. I didn’t want to have any holes in that. Tom was kind enough to get a set for Christina and Dr. Jenn, and they were ecstatic.

They were a big hit. I didn’t expect them to be that big of a deal. They were super excited.

He got hugs from all three of us.

I did. I’m not a hugger but that’s how I paid them off for tanking their marathon top speed.

Whatever it took. They were so nice to hang with me. They really were. I know they could have done way better than I did. Unfortunately, they’re already making plans for the next marathon. I’m like, “Can my feet heal before we make plans?”

No, they cannot. We should also say that we had a great meetup while we were there.

Friday night, when we first got there, there were so many fun people. Elise came. Christina came, and her husband Tim, who apparently is your doppelganger. He also does not do Peloton. Tina came. That’s #WhatsUpChickenButt. We had so many other people, Pat Darling and Tim Shawnesy, thank you again for setting all this up, and his husband Glenn. Glenn, this is for you since I never mentioned your name. Jenny Davis and her husband also showed up, and then Priscilla. We also had Sharks Girl. She was also there. We had a lot of fun and a lot of great people. The nachos are good if you ever get to eat at the Brit in San Jose. What a beautiful area. That whole area was beautiful.

That was good food. Thanks to everybody who had so much support for you. It was nice to see, and congrats to you for doing it, especially in light of the car accident.

Thank you. I have to say this because I know some people will want to know. Other people will roll their eyes like, “I don’t care,” but I definitely shed some tears as I crossed the finish line. Dr. Jenn and Christina gave me a hug. I was so grateful to be alive. I think it was Dr. Jenn that said, we’re so glad you’re still here. I started bawling. I completely lost it. I don’t think there will ever be an event that will mean as much as this particular event did. That’s why I wanted to wear the shirt “Just f**king do it” because it felt appropriate.

If there’s never going to be an event that will mean this much, I’m glad we’ve already gotten married.

I meant a running event, Tom.

It’s like, “I do, but it’s still not as good as the time I finished Big Sur.”

It’s not what I was saying.

“This is a marathon of a different sort.”

I’m feeling every mile today.

Yes, you are. What pray tell do you have in store for people?

I don’t know because all I can see is this picture. We’re going to have an update on the earnings call. We haven’t recorded it yet because it will be tomorrow morning. As soon as that happens, we’ll record it. We’re going to be talking about all the changes. There have been anniversaries this week. There have been things rolling out. There has been a lot of stuff going on for Mother’s Day. When we get to that part, if that’s triggering to you, please fast forward.

We got lawsuit updates. We got lots of instructors in the news updates and lots of podcasts for the instructors. You’ll want to listen to that so you can hear all of your favorite instructors. We also have a visit from Angelo. We’re going to talk about the best way to eat after a workout. We have competitor news. We have a visit from Dr. Jenn, and we talk about striking a balance between have to and want to.

Also, the interview this week is with Dr. Mark Shapiro. We should apologize to him.

Dr. Shapiro. I’m so sorry.

In our defense, he was our first interviewee after the accident.

When you see this, I still have all kinds of bruising.

We recorded it and there was a moment when we thought we’d still be able to do it. It was supposed to be on the Thursday after the accident. We were both foolish enough to think, “Maybe.” We asked to push it and luckily, he was a doctor. He was like, “I figured you would.”

He was like, “Of course, you need to push it.”

“I was surprised I hadn’t gotten this call yet.” After that, it fell through the cracks.

I don’t even know what happened.

He was kind enough to reach out and nudge us and be like, “Remember that time we talked for 40 minutes?”

The thing about this is I love this interview so much. I honestly thought I had already posted it. I enjoyed it so much. This interview is so fun. Dr. Shapiro is a blast. I want Dr. Shapiro to be my doctor because he’s so fun. Move to Missouri, Dr. Shapiro.

Let us know what your specialty is so we can get that disease. Our apologies to him and thank you for reminding us. Check out his interview because it’s a good one. Shameless plugs before we move on. Don’t forget we’re available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google. Wherever you find a podcast, you can find us. While you’re there, be sure and follow us so you never miss an episode. Maybe leave us a review. That’s always helpful and appreciated. You can also find us on Facebook, While you’re there, like the page, join the group.

Don’t forget our YouTube page, We also have a Patreon,, where you can get ad-free episodes. We put out the Mark Shapiro interview there three weeks ago. No, we didn’t. When we get an episode early, you will get it early. A lot of times, you’re getting them on Thursday afternoons. If that’s important to you, you get that as well. You get all sorts of bonus content. We’ve been going through the timeline year by year. I believe this episode, it is 2021.

I never posted 2020 until today. We’ll see if 2021 makes it out on Friday.

It’s in your not-too-distant future just like Deep 13.

Much like Dr. Shapiro’s interview.

You can also sign up for our newsletter at There’s all that. Let’s dig in. Shall we?

We Shall.

We just got done listening to the earnings call and Crystal is better at listening than I am.  

By listening, Tom means he was doing other things, but he was in the room, so that counts. Here’s the deal. We said it last quarter and we’ve said it several times. I feel like we have reached a turning point and I feel like this quarter summed that up. I think we were right. One of the things that came out in the letter that I want to make sure that we touch on because we did not touch on this in the news since it happened, is a settlement and patent license agreement has been reached with Dish Technology.

The cost of that settlement is going to be $75 million plus some other expenses. That is going to come out in Q4, and that’s going to affect the free cashflow in Q4 negatively. They felt that that was more important to do rather than prolong it. They felt like they could have prolonged and it could have had a different outcome, but they wanted to get it done and move on. I say yay.

It’s good to clear things off their plate like we’ve been talking about the lawsuits have been falling by the wayside left and right lately. They probably figured out that with the amount of money they spent fighting it, the cost differential wasn’t worth it. 

Not to mention, as they point out in the letter, the distraction to the day-to-day operation of the business. I agree with that. Since they have started knocking these lawsuits out one by one, you can tell as a group that they have been very laser-focused on growing the profitability. Specifically, they have been focused on getting to that break-even point, which Liz says, “We are within striking distance of that.” That’s exciting.

I also can’t help but wonder if they have some new technology that will mean they won’t need the Dish Network Technology. They’re like, “Pay them what we need as a stop-gap and then we’ll roll out our own stuff and we’re good now.”

That’s a fair question. There was a lot of stuff that came out in the letter that was exciting. To touch on a few things, they’re going to be doing a complete relaunch of the marketing. It’s like a brand relaunch, and that is going to be happening soon. I’m very excited about that. We are going to be seeing the rebranding or relaunch of the app. That’s going to be happening. They said the time is now. We know from the call that for sure, it is not going to affect any of the hardware costs. If you have hardware and you have all access, you’ll have all access across the board.

Don’t even get me started on the Row. They didn’t address it. That’s not what I’m talking about. They said that there will be a tiered membership approach, which they had already said. That’s not new information. What they did say is you’re going to have different options or different opportunities. If all you’re doing is joining the app, you’re going to be able to choose what kind of cost you want to put in, and that’s going to give you a different experience.

You’re going to have different ways to interact with the app based on how much you want to pay. Those are two hugely exciting things that came out of the letter. As far as the call, some things I think we should point to and one of the things I found fascinating is they talked about how they’re primarily known as a bike company, but that the behaviors of people say that they are well beyond that. That was something like 56% or 57% of people.

They’re using the app not even with the bike. They might be using the rower, strength, or whatever, but they’re not necessarily using the bike. That’s great because I want people to know that they’re not just a bike company. This marketing relaunch or this brand relaunch we’re going to see, you’re going to be seeing that. They’re going to be pushing their other offerings. That’s exciting because I’ve been saying to people for a long time, “They’re not just a bike company,” so finally.

Barry addressed something towards the end of the call that we’ve been saying for a long time, which is that people come to Peloton for the bike, but they stay for the content and the instructors. That is what people want from the brand more than anything. 

They talked a lot about how they expect the app to grow and has been growing faster than what the hardware is and what it has been. We’re going to be seeing a lot of people joining Peloton from the app side of things. They’re not necessarily going to have the hardware. That’s already been happening, but they expect it to happen even more in the future.

The question that Tom is talking about is when somebody asked, “You differentiated yourself by being that bike company. You started connected fitness. How are you going to differentiate in the app?” Barry’s answer that felt very strong was, “It’s the content. That’s the magic.” It is the content. He referred to us as users. Anybody tuning in to this counts because we are the people bothering to listen to a podcast about it.

He said, “With near religious fervor.” That cracked me up. I thought that was all very interesting. They said that they haven’t been spending very much on marketing for the FaaS, so fitness as a service. They will probably continue to do that as well. Remember, Q4 is always the one that’s going to be the hardest. It always has been and always will be. They’re expecting the connected fitness subs to be down. They’re expecting churn to be the highest.

They are also saying that they’re focused on not overspending and focusing on getting profitable subscribers, so making sure they have quality subscribers. I liked hearing that. They also said that they were very optimistic about the rebranding and the app launch, but they have not included that optimism in the guidance for Q4 at all, so it might even be better than what they’re seeing.

They also talked briefly about the refurbished bikes and how well they’re doing, especially considering that they’re not pushing it. People are coming across that organically, which I would think indicates that there’s an organic demand for Peloton, but people that maybe don’t necessarily have the means to buy a full-price bike are on the hunt for ways to get less expensive bikes. Peloton is there with refurbished stuff, which is also smart because you’d rather sell them refurbished bikes and make some money than have them go to the secondary market and make no money.

I thought it was interesting too that in the shareholder letter, they referred to the fact that a big chunk of new subscribers has come from old bikes being sold by members. They use eBay as an example. I thought that was super interesting.

It was 33,500, which I don’t remember the timeframe but to me, that’s a little distressing because, on the one hand, you’re saying you’ve had that many people leave the platform. On the flip side, that’s assuming they didn’t upgrade bikes. I would think, by and large, it’s probably people leaving the platform. You’re instantly replacing them, but you’re not selling hardware to them directly, which I think shows the importance of the refurbished program.

They can at least recoup that money on their own hardware. I would think as a user that if I can buy a used Peloton for $800, I’m making up the numbers, but I can buy a refurbished one for $1,000 directly from Peloton and I know it’s got some sort of warranty, I’m going to go with the refurbished product every time.

I would too. Some other interesting things to make sure that we mention is they talked about, “What are you expecting to see in 2023?” Somebody asked the question, “Where do you think the growth is going to come from?” They said commercial and corporate wellness. Those both have good momentum. Third-party, we’re starting to see that. Business to business, they said there’s a lot to learn there, but there are signs of life.

International, they said there are opportunities for growth. They said that there had been new hardware this 2023. They talked about how aware people are of the different types of hardware that we have. The rower is only at 4%, the Guide is only at 1%, and the app is at 5%. The interesting thing is that the app’s net promoter score is 20% higher than the bike. Isn’t that fascinating?

Fewer people are aware of it, but the people that are aware of it like it. 

They said, “Imagine what can happen if people actually know that it exists.” Also, keep in mind that this will be the first full year of the row. They haven’t even marketed it really. They said that most of the people that have bought it have been existing subscribers, which we knew.

It’s a value proposition. You don’t have to pay anything extra for the monthly subscription. You just have the cost of the rower, which is not insignificant to be sure. I do think that there are people that love Peloton. I think the rower got sold to a lot of people who have never even thought about rowing like you until Peloton had one, and they’re like, “Okay. Let’s add it.”

I also would like to make sure everyone is paying attention. A second treadmill product is coming probably in 2023. They don’t control the timing, but they have invested a lot in the relationship with the CPSC. That is incredibly exciting because that means that Tread+ might be coming back this fiscal year, like in the next twelve months. I did not realize that Jenn Cotter and her team are over accessories and apparel now. I want to point out that Barry was excited about something coming with apparel. He said something new is coming there and very exciting things. They are not sharing what they are just yet. I am super excited about that.

Also, when it comes to connected fitness, there have been a lot of questions. A lot of people who don’t know what they’re talking about are putting out their rumors. They see stuff as they scrape Peloton’s website and assume that they know what they’re talking about. They’re going to be able to make a la carte choices when they have the bike or they have any kind of hardware. It’s not true. Barry said, “No, it’s going to be all access. Nothing is changing there.” I know I mentioned that a little bit earlier, but I wanted to clear that up. There’s no a la carte coming with that.

Hospitality, he didn’t want to talk about very much, but he did say that it’s going to continue because it’s profitable in its own right and it’s a good source of growth. One of the other things I wanted to make sure that we talked about is he was talking about some very exciting things. He wouldn’t say what it was, but he did say that there is something coming soon. It sounded like it was some international thing, potentially, but it was going to be co-branded. It’s something we’re going to be seeing in the next couple of quarters that will be co-branded. They’ve never done this before. He sounded very excited about that. I can’t wait to see what that’s going to be.

I also thought it was interesting that Barry was like, “We need to improve our rowing content. That’s not due to research. That’s just me as a user.” I was like, “That’s interesting.” Another interesting thing is he talked about how engagement is up with people who have all access. He said, “You got to make it easy to find. The engineering team will continue to work on making that personalization happen.” Get this, guys, Lane break has off-the-charts engagement with more male users and much younger ones. He said the same with Power Zone. They’re going to lean into that personalization. If you are male and you are younger, you’re going to be getting a lot of opportunities. I think you’re going to have to be served Lanebreak.

I don’t think that’s surprising to me at all. It’s a video game, and video games are more popular with young males. It makes total sense that would resonate with that demo. They also made a comment that their new marketing campaign will be targeting a younger demo. 

They said that as far as what they’ve seen so far with people who’ve been added as subs that don’t necessarily have the hardware, it hasn’t been very different than what they’ve seen in the past. I found it interesting that it was more professional females who see the advantage of being able to have a lot of variety and flexibility, which makes sense. I thought it was interesting that it was females. That is it. I felt like this was a very exciting quarter. I felt like this was the most exciting call that I’ve listened to since Barry has been in charge. I feel like they’re in a good place. They’re starting to get momentum and everybody seems very positive. The market is up. It was 2.5% when we first started recording.

That’s still what the ticker on our website says anyway. I also felt like the questions this time were l more legitimate information-seeking questions and not like, “We think you’re a dip sh*t. Could you, expand?” 

There was a lot less, “Can you expand?” People accepted what was in the shareholder’s letter. I think that’s the first time that has occurred too.

The questions seemed a lot less adversarial than they have over the last few calls. 

Everybody seemed more relaxed on this call, both presenters and people asking questions. I’m still chuckling over that one lady that asked a question and Liz Coddington was like, “Huh?”

It was funny because when she asked the question, you were like, “I don’t understand what she’s asking,” then Liz was instantly like, “I’m sorry, could you repeat that for the people?” 

That was funny. Overall, this is all great. I’m excited. They also talked about new content. They’re going to continue to release new content types, so we’re going to continue to see new things coming out on the app and new types of content. I’m excited about that. I can’t keep up as it is, but keep it coming.

That’s going to be the real differentiator as other companies try to carve off a slice of their pies. There’s so much content in the Peloton ecosystem that you’re not going to get elsewhere. I don’t know that anybody is even approximating things like Lanebreak. They’re already ahead of the game there. 

There are some companies that are doing gaming, but they don’t do the rest of what Peloton does.

It’s all you would get. As people decide to go down this fitness rabbit hole, they’re weighing apps. I think even people that get a little snarky about Peloton because it’s so established that there’s the backlash, when they start comparing it as a value proposition, they’re going to look at it and go, “It’s not even a close call.” 

I absolutely agree with that. There’s a lot to be excited about. I’m curious to see what the new marketing campaign is like. I’m curious to see what the new app offerings are going to be. As soon as we get any word on any of that and we’re able to share, because sometimes they’re like, “Here’s what’s going on but we can’t talk about it yet,” we will definitely be sharing that. I’m super excited. It’s the first time I’ve been excited about new offerings in a while. I love being excited about Peloton.

I love it when you’re excited. It was a good call. It’s nice to see that it does seem to be riding the ship. 

There was one thing I was super disappointed about across the board. None of the questions, not Barry, not Liz, not one person referred to today as May 4th. There were no Star Wars puns. I was a little disappointed. Tom, do you have one?

I’m half asleep. 

I know. I was just trying. It’s something about the force being with us because it was a good call.

Absolutely. There’s your earnings call recap, and we will now return you to your regularly scheduled Clip Out already in progress.

Post-class recommendations are beginning to roll out for iOS users on the app.

I think they might be testing us for now because it’s not everybody. It seems to be here and there. It’s a little spotty. It is for iOS only and once it’s out there, it shows you different classes that would match well with the classes that you are already taking.

If you got a little bit more juice in the tank, it’s giving you something that’s not like another 60-minute Power Zone class. It’s like, “Here’s a quick.”

It’s also on the app. The interesting thing about that is we’ve been seeing stuff similar to this on the bike and on the tread, but this is showing up specifically on the app. That part is new. If you’re doing something that’s just app only, it’s nice because it encourages you to keep going as well, and it reduces the amount of taps that you need to do if you are looking for a new class.

Maybe they do this already. I don’t know, but why wouldn’t they? Do you think it has a thing baked into where it knows what other equipment you have so it could be like, “Person who finished a bike class, we know you own a rower. Here’s a quick ten-minute row you could do.

Since it’s on the app, I don’t think that’s what it’s trying to do.

That makes sense but for the other ones.

While we're going through this shared experience of fear, anxiety, learning, and challenge, we're also finding the shared experience of taking care of ourselves and building a community to have a little bit of fun during some pretty… Click To Tweet

If it’s on the app, I think they’re banking on you don’t have equipment. Having said that, if you’re using it at a gym, you have access to all the things, I’m not sure. I know that Peloton has said this before since Barry has taken over. They’ve been doubling down on the user experience, getting more specific with the things you do and take, and making it more like Netflix.

I was about to say the same thing. This sure feels very Netflix-like in terms of, “Here, try the next thing.” I guess you also have to be careful because if you watch ten shows in a row, you just wasted a day, but if you do ten workouts in a row, that’s probably too many.

That is true. Who knows what they’ll decide to do with that but I do agree. However, I think that this is a step in the direction of trying to make it more personalized. I feel like it’s laying the groundwork for something else bigger that they’re working on. Just a hunch.,

The Peloton Tread is celebrating five years of existence. I can’t call it a birthday. I would feel bad for whoever had to give birth to that. Hopefully, it was a cesarean.

The last I checked, people don’t give birth to machines.

That would be a workout.

I am so excited to see these pictures. It brings back the nostalgia. Five years since we’ve known these tread instructors in 23rd Street studio. I miss those days. Look at those baby faces of all those instructors. It has only been five years but it’s interesting to go back and look at their pictures side by side. It’s very interesting.

I feel like Matty looks very young. It’s not like he looks old now.

He has more of a baby face though. They all do. It’s very interesting.

Lots of Mother’s Day stuff are going on at Peloton.

This is your chance to back away. Turn it off if you don’t want to hear it, but lots of stuff are going on.

They’re having a Mother’s Day event, The Magic of Motherhood.

It is going to be featuring Jess King, not Jess Sims, and also Robin Arzón. Why do I say that? Because the first email that went out accidentally said Jess Sims. There was lots of confusion around that since Jess Sims is not yet a mom. There has also been a little kerfuffle over both of the moms that are featured here are recent moms, and they’re new to motherhood. They got little ones at home. There are some people that are theorizing that this is probably to reach out to moms who are younger or starting out. There are other people that feel like it would’ve been nice. Maybe they still will have an event that might be towards older kids, and have some of the moms who are on the staff that are older.

Different phases of motherhood.

Exactly because being a mom can encompass a lot of things. I will tell you from my own experience because I’m old, the difference between caring for an infant and a sixteen-year-old is awful. It’s the same but it’s very different. They require constant attention in a very different way. Now they can tell you exactly what they want and argue with you unlike when they’re infants.

When they’re babies, they can’t tell you what they want. When they’re teenagers, they can but won’t.

They’ll argue with you about nothing. Everything is so dramatic.

Unlike babies, you can shake teenagers. No, don’t.

No, but in all seriousness, being a mom or being a parent, regardless of what gender you are, if you have children, there are a lot of ways to do that. It’s a journey. Hopefully, we will see some more events that encompass some other phases of life.

Peloton Apparel is also celebrating Mother’s Day.

All the moms who had babies this year were featured in a video for Peloton Apparel. We had a few that had. This one they did include some other kinds of moms like Callie being a dog mom, Jenn Sherman and Kristin McGee with their older kids, and some other instructors who have dogs. They included them as well. Of course, the cat moms. You can’t forget the cat moms. It’s a cute video. It always makes me happy to see all the babies and the animals. I love the animals.

For our final Mother’s Day story, Peloton is looking for mother and child stories.

They’re looking for a special Peloton story between a Peloton mom and a child. “Stay tuned for a special Mother’s Day Instagram campaign featuring your story. You can submit anything ranging from shouting out your Peloton mom and child, sharing how Peloton has brought you together, or a memorable Peloton experience you had together. Deadline May 5th.”

Get on it.

Jen Elie and her daughter Caroline. I bet they submit for this. They are the mom-daughter team that I think of when I think of this because they have been doing that for a long time. I’ll tell you another one. Melissa Holt and her mom. They’ve both been doing Peloton with their kids for a long time.

There was the lady we interviewed a couple of weeks ago with her daughter.

Tricia. Absolutely.

They will be good for this.

So many good stories. I can’t wait to see what they come up with.

There’s a guy named Dr. Jump Rope. I’m going to go out on a limb and say, “Not his birth name.”

That is probably true.

He is a five-time cancer survivor and has had both hips replaced. He’s attempting to set a Guinness World record on a Peloton bike.

I think he already set a Guinness Book World record for the number of times he has survived cancer.

For real?

No. I don’t know, but I’ve never heard of five times. First of all, I hope somebody has not had to endure that, but he keeps going. Here’s the deal. What he’s going to do is 100 miles at the maximum resistance of 100 on his Peloton bike. I’m curious if he’s doing this with a regular Bike or a Bike+. Not to be rude, Dr. Jump Rope, but you can check a Bike pretty easily.

Not to even say that he jacked a bike, but some bikes are easier than others. He might not even realize it.

He is titling this the Max Max 100 Peloton Rides. Either way, it’s very cool that he is doing it. I wish him nothing but luck. I can’t wait to hear more details because I’d like to hear little things like that. I’m always curious about that kind of stuff. Good luck to Dr. Jump Rope. I hope it goes well.

You might remember a while back, there are so many Peloton lawsuits to keep track of. Maybe they should have them be like trading cards. Collect them all and trade them with your friends.

This one is pretty old too.

This one has been around for a while. Not counting the music-based lawsuits, this is one of the oldest ones. Peloton was getting sued over using the phrase ever-growing library because they purged all the classes because of the music lawsuits, and then immediately started building it back up.

This is back in 2018 for people who are thinking recent purge or you started in 2020. This is old stuff.

They had purged all the black and white classes. That’s how long ago this was.

It was the largest purge ever in Peloton’s history.

You think people lose their minds now, “Please.”

It was gray days. It was ugly.

They were sued for that because you said it’s ever-growing and for a three-week window, it wasn’t ever-growing because you pulled some classes. A judge has thrown that suit out.

He shut it down.

I skimmed the article. I didn’t get a chance to focus on it because I’ve been super busy. From what it sounds like, they were saying that all of the complaints were very individualized. There wasn’t a large group of people who all had the same complaint. It was a lot of people complaining about different aspects where they were like, “That’s more of an inconvenience.”

Therefore, they couldn’t be a class action lawsuit. They lost their class status so the whole suit is thrown out. It doesn’t mean it can’t come back because they could reformat it somehow. The way it currently stands, they have lost their class status so they’re out. I always thought this one should be thrown out. It’s ridiculous.

There’s a legal term called puffery, which is businesses that are going to make claims that are puffed up. You have to decide when it is a lie, i.e. “This will cure cancer.” That’s a lie, versus, “This is the best soda in the world.” That’s puffery and subjective. You can’t sue for that.

When they said it was puffery, they did get shut down for that. Peloton lost that piece of it.

I don’t think they should have.

TCO 308 | Peloton Med Community


They did. I guess ever-growing can be measured. That was their theory.

It’s quantifiable.

It was just a weird set of circumstances though.

Especially because I don’t think anyone can argue about the commitment to the creation of content that Peloton has, just because they had to take a step backward to take 45 steps forward.

I know.

Coming up after this, we’re going to talk to Dr. Jenn. She’s going to help you strike a balance between having to and wanting to, so stick around.

Joining us once again is Dr. Jenn Mann, licensed marriage, family and child therapist, and sports psychology consultant. She also has a wonderful app that you should check out called No More Diets. It’s Dr. Jenn.


I have two questions. They’re the same but they’re coming from two different directions. One is from Julia Furtado-Levoy. She says that she feels like the biggest struggle she experiences this time of year is the myriad of parties and invitations that crop up everywhere. It’s cutting into her time, and it’s hard to balance weddings, birthdays, travel, etc. You then have another one from Donna McKillip Kosola. She says trying to fit in everything that she wants to do, bike, tennis, pickleball, strength training, and prioritizing. They feel like the same thing.

I get this. One thing we’ve learned from the last three-plus years is that life is too short. It’s important that we prioritize the things that are important to us. This comes back to a theme we’ve talked about recently which is f**k the shoulds. It’s important to evaluate how many of these weddings you want to go to. How many of them will you actually be able to connect with the bride and groom and have a fun time? How many of these events are things you care about? How many of these are things that will be memories that you think about beyond that day?

It’s important to look at what your priorities are. What’s consistent with your priorities? What is meaningful and what is not? What are you doing to please other people as opposed to because it’s important to you? Sometimes we have to spend some time being mindful and cleaning the house and going like, “This is someone who I’ve been friends with. We have different values. We have different philosophies. Maybe this person isn’t that important to me anymore but I haven’t thought about it, and I haven’t reevaluated it.”

We want to also look at the different categories like time with friends, exercise, milestone events, and travel. Look at, “Of those things, am I doing the things or the categories that are most important to me? Am I finding balance?” If each is a piece of the pie, make sure you’ve got a piece of that pie to find that balance.

That’s important. You’re absolutely right. I like that. It reminds me of an Alanis Morissette song. There was this one line that has always stuck with me. It’s why is it so easy to get stuck and so hard to stay unstuck or something like that, and not the other way around. I feel like being mindful is such an easy thing to say and it’s so hard to do because of our patterns and our habits.

We tend to go on autopilot. I think that the world is very conducive to autopilot. It’s not super conducive to checking in with ourselves, being mindful, looking at where we are, and taking our own temperature, emotionally speaking.

The human brain is conducive to that. How many times do you drive to work and somebody asked you about your drive, and you have no recollection of it?

It’s a great point.

Thank you for all that. Until next time, where can people find you?

People can find me on all social media @DrJennMann. I post my Peloton workouts. You can always find me here on The Clip Out.

We have a new tread instructor. Not a new instructor but an instructor who you’ve seen before that’s now a tread instructor.

Mariana Fernández. I’ve been hoping for this for a while. There have been hints, but it is actually happening. I’m so excited that she’s going to be doing this. What a perfect combination between running and yoga. I love her running for yoga classes and programs. I am super excited that she’s going to be joining the tread lineup. Her premiere run is on May 4th, 7:00 PM Eastern. By the time you hear this, if you haven’t already taken it, you need to hop on the tread and make sure you take it right away. Welcome. Mariana.

Emma Lovewell is making the rounds to support her new book ad she was on CBS This Morning.

They have a five-minute clip so you can check it out. She talks about Peloton, her book, and lots of little details. I think that you’re probably going to be hearing stuff you’ve already heard. There was nothing that was like new information you must know. We are very happy for Emma that her book was officially launched. Now is the time to order it if you haven’t already.

She was also featured in Elle Magazine.

Learning to Date Yourself. It’s not like how old you are.

I was like, “I like to date myself every day.”

You do, with your old-timey references, fo sho.

Remember when you had to put it on channel 3 to play video games?

Remember when you had to go change the channel for your dad?

You had to go downstairs to get a beer.

We didn’t have a downstairs. I was just going to the fridge.

While we’re talking about Emma, she is now a sponsor of Michiru.

They’re her sponsor. It’s haircare if you’re wondering, with Japanese-inspired ingredients like rice protein, sakuraflower, citrus yuzu, and silk powder. You can get these products at Target.

Haircare is such an important part of my life.

I know. You’re so funny.

Becs Gentry ran a marathon, Women Run the World.

It was a half marathon. I love when you try to figure out what my notes mean. It’s so funny. She came in second at the Shape and Health Women’s Half Marathon. She is an incredible runner. Don’t forget, she just had a child and she got back to work. She’s like, “That was easy. Let me go ahead and almost run this race I barely trained for. Got it.” Congrats to Becs. Seriously, what an accomplishment. That’s incredible.

Speaking of running, I’m not even going to say what kind of run it was because I’m going to be wrong.

I’m pretty sure this was a half marathon too. Jeffrey McEachern also ran. I think it was a half marathon. He was very happy to get his medal. He did a great job out there. He didn’t come in second place, but he kicked ass nonetheless.

Finally, for our running portion, Susie Chan did the Bad Water. It is awful.

It’s 81 miles of running through the desert into the mountains at night. You start in the desert and then you go up through the mountains with a thousand feet of elevation. The weather changes and the elevation changes. It’s all insane.

9,000 feet.

Here’s the deal. Not only was she worried about finishing this but she finished it and she finished in the top 10.

That’s crazy. This is the one she had to be invited to.

This was invite-only. Also, we will be talking to Laura Watts who also ran this race and had finished Bad Water before. Apparently, there are three in this series and this was Susie’s second of three. She will be giving a mega medallion when she does number three. I say when because she will.

She was also on the Runners World Podcast.

Runners World UK. I only say that because there is a Runners World Podcast in the US. I just want to make sure because they’re magazines. They’re two separate podcasts. I love this subject. I haven’t gotten to listen yet but it’s how to make treadmill running fun. Make Susie Chan do it. Make her teach it and it’s fun. It’s the best ever. It’s really simple.

Cody Rigsby will be taking part in Pop Sugar’s Play/Ground. I don’t know what that is, but it’s an event and there are still tickets available.

That’s on Friday, June 2nd in Los Angeles.

Hop to it. Bradley Rose was on the Marketing Unfiltered podcast talking about his stroke and dealing with criticism.

You need to know that it’s his wife interviewing him because it’s his wife’s podcast. Just making sure you knew that.

I did not know that. I saw that it says, “Tea with my husband,” but I thought it was somebody being cute like when all the ladies are like, “He’s my husband,” because they like him so much. I didn’t realize that they were actually betrothed.

Yes, they are. That’s why I wanted to make sure you knew that.

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Someone needs to explain things to me. That’s what you’re here for. Christine D’Ercole spoke at the Heart of Florida United Way’s 16th Annual Women United Luncheon.

She spoke about mental fitness, which is a great topic, especially as we enter Mental Health Awareness Month. She’s always talking about this. It’s great info.

Robin was at the BTIG Commissions for Charity Day event. I don’t know what that is but it must be a big deal because Bill Clinton is there.

She got to meet lots of people, Robin Roberts, Yankees manager Aaron Boone, and a whole bunch of influential figures. The part that I thought was cool personally is that she was excited to share that the Potaristas is one of the beneficiaries of the exceptional event. They raise money and then they give it to charities and Potaristas was one of them. That’s cool.

She also had a post explaining swagger points.

I started off trying to be positive about this whole thing. I made that clear. I wanted to learn about it. I wanted to share it with you. At this point, I don’t care. I’m done. If you do care, here’s the deal. You can get some points by buying a bunch of stuff and then you get points and then she gives you more stuff like membership, merch, and tickets, and you have to complete monthly challenges to get them. It’s too exhausting. I do enough things. That’s why I’m calling it that. I don’t need one more thing to do. I know that there are people that are into this, so get into it. Do your thing. That’s awesome.

Robin was also on CNBC talking about reinventing herself and building her Peloton brand.

She has done that.

Jenn Sherman posted a clip of her first-ever Peloton photoshoot.

I find it interesting that the week that they received their timelines, this got posted. I think we might have sparked a little nostalgia. You’re welcome, Jenn Sherman.

A little walk down memory lane.

You’re welcome. It is very cool to see this footage. I love it. I’m so glad it’s out there somewhere still. Tom Cortese did the same thing. We got people pulling out footage everywhere.

Coming up next, we’re going to talk to Angelo from MetPro. If you workout and you tune in to this show, you probably wondered how should you eat if you’re going to eat after a workout. He’s going to help walk you through that so stick around.

Joining us once again is Angelo from MetPro, here to answer all of your fitness and nutrition questions.

Thanks for having me back.

We’re so glad you’re here. Karen Diodanto needs your help. She says she has no understanding of how to eat after a workout. She gave an example that the day before she ran 11 miles. She said, “Do I now use this as an excuse to eat a lot or do I eat normally? I have no clue.”

I’m pretty sure I know what Angelo is going to say here, “It depends.” This is what goes on in my head. I would like to take you down a flashback in time to Angelo’s wedding. “Angelo, do you take this woman as your lawfully wedded wife?” “It depends.”

I would have been a dead man.

I don’t think Ashley would stand for that at all.

There are a lot of factors at play here. More often than not, sure.

What I wanted to invite our audience to do is when you have a question, give some superfluous detail. Don’t write an essay, but a small couple of sentences background. Here’s what I always want to know. If I met you for the first time, we’re on the phone, we’re doing a consultation together, and you’re going to have a question, here’s what I need to know. What are your goals? What have you been doing? Are you exercising? How many days a week and roughly what kind of exercise and what duration?

I don’t need to know how many sets were upright rows versus bicep curls. We don’t need to go to that level of nuance. Eleven miles is great. How often are you doing that? How many days a week are you training? What is your goal? Are you trying to improve performance? Are you trying to improve your body composition? Are you doing a hybrid of both? If it is a hybrid, what is your priority in that? Those are all the things that are going to influence the correct answer.

The problem in the industry today is that there is a ton of great information floating around there. You get all these gurus and none of them agree. One says to do this and the other one says to do that. It’s not that one is right and one is wrong. Typically, it’s that it depends on the circumstance of what you’re trying to accomplish.

In your case, Karen, what you want to do is if it’s purely a performance equation, you want to fuel more. You want to give your body everything it needs to optimally recover, and then a little above that, not a lot. That is what is going to put you in the best position for your body to have all the resources it needs to replenish from the activity that you’ve done, recover and repair connective tissue, muscle tissue, and microtrauma, and get you into an anabolic hormonal state, which favors repair and faster recovery time so you can get back out and run again.

There is a huge caveat to that. That is the degree to which you apply that is going to be heavily influenced by, “I also have a propensity to put on weight and I’m trying to actually decrease my body weight,” so now we want to mix and match and manage that. In that case, the answer is always still recovering enough and adding enough fuel to where you can recover adequately.

Once you’re recovering adequately, if your goal is fat loss or reduced body weight, then you want to give your body just what it needs, recognizing that the point of calorie depletion and glycogen depletion is to put you into a deficit which requires your body to tap reserves, which is by default never as efficient. It’s never going to be optimized for performance. That’s what people have to balance between.

Where the confusion comes in the industry is you get individuals who are very passionate about one strategy with food or exercise. They tend to sometimes make it sound as if this works for all scenarios. “It doesn’t matter. This is the best way to eat, no matter what your goal is.” That is simply not true. That might be true for that person, but if you actually work over large amounts of people and evaluate data sets, you will find that is very not true. In fact, the opposite is going to be the case. Each person is going to flourish under a highly unique set of parameters nutritionally and with their training. That’s the nerdy stuff that we geek out on all the time, but Karen probably just wants a simple answer. Doesn’t she, guys?

I’m thinking probably.

It depends. I found that how people eat is a lot like religion. People find the thing that works for them and then they’re like, “Everything else is a lie. You have to do the thing I’m doing.”

What I prioritize as far as hierarchy may surprise you. Before asking for a post-workout recovery meal, I will ask my clients, “Are you getting at least three meals a day?” If you’re not getting a consistent breakfast, lunch, and dinner, we don’t even need to talk about adding post-workout. You need to start there because that’s critical for your recovery. I like to see a minimum of four meals a day, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and at least one snack.

If you’re already getting all of that, then start adding post-workout recovery. Otherwise, you’re just missing meals that should be coming anyway. You should have had that breakfast before you went out on your training run, or you should have lunch right after you get back from it. Get your base meal plan in place. Once that’s in place, then start looking to add post-workout recovery meals. It can be something simple. You can do a protein shake that has carbohydrates in it. You want something that doesn’t have a high fat or fiber content in it post workout.

It was an answer. That was very direct.

Also, superfluous information helps me make jokes about you. That’s a better reason to include it. If people would like this sort of stuff tailor-made for themselves and their fitness journeys, where can they find you?

Amazon came with Halo a while back. It was their Fitbit killer, trying to do what Whoop does.

They were trying to do what Whoop does. They were trying to measure a bunch of things by you having a wearable. You were supposed to be able to see how your body changed over time and how your stress was changing over time. In theory, you could speak and it would pick up on the stress level in your voice and then be like, “Calm down,” which would be a problem because it would always be yelling at me if I had one.

You would be less calm and it would tell you to calm down even more. It’s just a vicious cycle.

We would end up getting divorced. It would be a whole thing.

Why? Are you going to marry your Halo device? You would now be a widow because Halo is dead.

They killed it off. Not that this is shocking at all.

It was a little shocking, For years, I feel like Amazon would hold on to things and not let them go.

That’s true. It’s just not shocking that it didn’t work. People did not like this thing. I don’t know anybody that had one. One person commented they liked theirs but liked Apple Watch better. Besides that, I have never seen anybody say anything positive about this thing.

That’s funny. There have to be a lot of high-fives going around the Whoop offices that day.

Based on the posts that they have made, I would say that is true. They were like, “We told you not to steal our stuff.” Whoop, to their credit, has always been focused on one thing and that is making a wearable, not a watch and not a tracker. They’ve been focused on having a wearable that gives you functional data. They come up with some cool stuff that has blown me away and blown competitors out of the water.

I think they are high-fiving each other. I had gotten very close to the point where I was like, “I’m just going to use my Apple Watch,” but Whoop keeps up in the game and keeps convincing me to stick around. Their newest one with the strength thing is awesome. Getting back to Amazon and Halo, they ended it. They are giving people refunds. The sad part is they laid off 3,000 people.

That sucks.

The Peloton Studios account posted a Peloton weekly post.

We have new mobility classes and Star Wars classes. I had a bunch of other stuff listed here, so it’s all gone. There are going to be some kind of Vasec recovery classes. Of course, the Asian Pacific Islander Heritage Month. I cannot get that one right no matter what I do. Every year, I jack it up. Those classes are getting ready to start. They haven’t posted the schedule yet. By the time this is published, they may have. I’m excited to see those classes. We also have the RIOPY meditation that’s going to be posted soon or they did post it.

By the time you hear this, Sam Yo’s Star Wars class would have taken place. I guess he had some special info.

It’s just a teaser. He’s teasing something unique. I don’t know that it’ll be unique. It’s him with a lightsaber. I don’t think it’s going to be anything different than a class, but there might be the way Peloton does things. I could totally see them doing something cool with the lighting and that kind of stuff. You never know. Maybe there will be somebody from the production company or something like that either showing up. He’ll have a tiny Yoda or they’ll have the real baby Yoda in the studio with him.

For Mother’s Day.

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That makes sense. Anyway, enjoy. I’m sure it’ll be very cool.

Marcel Maurer has a balance challenge coming up.

He just did it in the video.

I thought it was a whole thing, something he was doing in this video.

He posted it. I wanted to see if I could get you to do it.

No. I suck at this. In the video, he’s on one foot, bending over, putting on a shoe and sock, and then tying it all while on one leg.

He then switches and does the other one with the other leg never touching. I think I could do it.

I don’t think you could.

Coming in hot.

The tying-it part is going to be rough.

I think I could do it. We should see.

I know I can’t do it. There’s no reason for me to attempt it. If you like EDM, who doesn’t? I don’t know, but there are people out there. It’s a very popular form of music. It’s not just my jam. If you like EDM, Jess King has a class for you coming up, EDMEDU. I guess they’re using all EDM music and DJ John Michael is helping out, I’m sure.

Cool. I got nothing.

Do you love the EDM?

I don’t like anything about this ad. It’s not my thing. I am not the demo.

That’s okay.

Here’s something you do like.

It’s Susie Chan’s birthday.

Susie Chan’s birthday is coming up on May 10th.

Happy birthday, Susie Chan.

Don’t forget to wish Susie Chan a happy birthday. Coming up after this, we’re going to have our long-lost interview with the ever-patient, Dr. Mark Shapiro, so stick around.

Joining us is Dr. Mark Shapiro.

How are you both?

We brought you on so I could ask you, I got this thing.

You wouldn’t be the first and for however long the episode, I preferred if you called me Dr. Shapiro.

Sometimes when we travel, I will put in the hotel when they ask my name, I will put doctor just because they will give you a better room sometimes.

I should try that because I end up in the room by the elevator dinging and I’m like, “I went to medical school for this?”

It’s so awkward because then they will be like, “Dr. O’Keefe.”

Worse yet, “Dr. O’Keefe, can you look at this stuff?”

“I can’t help you. I’m a gynecologist.”

Moving on.

I got it all planned out. I know how to duck and weave.

I’m here for the ride. You all DM-ed me to say, “Do you want to come on this Peloton podcast?” I was like, “Sure. Whenever you are ready to get to Peloton. I’m ready.”

I have been trying. Sadly. Once Tom gets going, it’s hard to get back on track. How did you originally find Peloton, Dr. Shapiro?

Dr. Shapiro is my grandpa and Dr. Shapiro is my dad. I’m a third-generation physician and I’m Mark. I was joking when I said that. I remember when Peloton came out like many do. At the time, I was active on social media. I still am. I was firmly in that camp of this is so not for me, this is expensive. It’s almost like elitist, detached, and not where the people were. I still had a gym membership at the time. I had an old exercise bike. That was fine. I didn’t have a sense of what it could be and I didn’t connect with it very much. I remember seeing stuff around it and seeing what was in the zeitgeist. It was being poked fun at and it was a very easy target. That was my introduction to it.

Back in the day when you heard that initial price point, it was like she got it pretty fairly early in 2016.

I wouldn’t have even remembered it was 2016 when they started coming out. That’s how detached I am. I remember when I started with mine, but it was that long ago.

That’s when I got mine. July 15th, 2016. If you are wondering, that’s my peloversary.

It’s a value proposition. When you sit down and figure out what it costs you to do a spin class and then also the BS of setting one up, all of a sudden, that sticker price is a lot more manageable.

It is. My pathway into this thing that I’m now passionate about and I do interact with pretty much every day, talk about with friends every day, and have built friendships and collaborations all around the country through this shared platform. I’m very active on Twitter and in our community. There’s #PelotonMedTwitter of which there are many hundreds of people that are engaging on it.

It started around the pandemic when COVID-19 hit because, like many others, I wasn’t going to go to the gym. Those in my community or healthcare professionals were now doing some very stressful things on top of what was already a very challenging job. I’m a hospital-based physician, so all of my work with patients is done in the hospital. I need a physical outlet for exercise and some routine and things that are aspirational.

I love being coached. I like doing things with other people. There was this sense that those are all gone and in parallel, my professional work is difficult right now. If you were to have ten nurses, physicians, respiratory therapists, and healthcare professionals of any sort and say, “What was it like in quarter one of 2020?” You’d hear a pretty similar narrative.

I remember having a conversation with my wife and my parents. We were like, “As a family, how are we going to navigate this?” All of them were like, “For your self-care, you have to exercise. You can’t go to the gym. Just go for it. You are not going to be paying for a gym membership. Just do it. Get the new bike.” It was also a change where the bike price had gone down. “Just get it. Just do it,” and I did and we are off.

When did you end up officially getting the bike?

April 2020. I don’t remember the exact date but it was the first part of the month because I remember I did a birthday ride on April 28th, 2020.

You pulled the trigger quickly.

No. This was part of, “How are we going to navigate this ride?” We are not doing school. I’m seeing COVID patients in the hospital. This is right at the beginning. Mom and dad, “Are you okay?” My sister and her family, “Are you guys okay?” It’s, how are we taking care of each other? Part of that family conversation for all of us too was how we are going to take care of each other. “This is going to be rough. You have to take care of yourself. Part of that is going to be for your mental, physical, and emotional well-being. For exercise, let’s get this tool.”

Your family sounds awesome.

You lucked out because it’s probably a few weeks after that all of a sudden, it has taken months to get a Peloton.

I was right inside that window. I got mine within 2 or 3 weeks of placing the order. I remember the people who delivered it were like, “We are going to put this on your porch,” and you’re going to figure it out. That’s fine. That was the introduction. My first ride was with Alex Toussaint and I remember it was a Club Bangers Ride. What is this? I loved it, and then I started ripping through all the coaches, all instructors, and all bikes like a complete Luddite. I wasn’t doing anything but riding and I paid the price for that down the road because I wasn’t stretching. I was like, “Let’s go. PR. Everything. Let’s go HIIT and Hills.”

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You went hard in every class.

Yeah. I am who I am. My wife can tell you. She’d be like, “Are you okay?” “I’m fine.” I loved it. I rode with every coach a bunch of times. They are authentic but they all have their own shtick. They have their rhythms and the way they like to run their classes. I found the ones that I felt resonated with me and I tore into it.

Who are the instructors that resonate with you?

Right out of the gate were Alex Toussaint, Emma Lovewell, and Denis Morton. During those first few months, there are a lot of instructors and I have already a huge archive so I’m digging through everything. Kendall Toole had some metal rides in the archive and I threw down on those. Do you want a PR with me? Let’s do a metal ride and we are going to get after it. I’m going to do one and I’m fired up already.

That being said, at the same time too, I was very active on Twitter at that point. I have a decent size profile, particularly among healthcare professionals who use Twitter, and this conversation was starting to happen, “How are we taking care of ourselves?” We are all conversing around, “The first cases are up in Washington. What are we seeing in learning from there? Now we are seeing cases in New York. Now we are seeing cases everywhere. What strategies are working? How are you guys doing at home?” Robust ideas were exchanged and a big part of it was, “What are we doing for self-care?”

This is scary. This is very stressful. I come home now and I’m taking off all my clothes in the garage. I’m dunking my shoes in bleach. I go inside the house and no one touches me before I take a shower. These are the new rhythms of life. In parallel, how are we taking care of ourselves? A lot of people started saying, “I’m using a Peloton. I’m buying a Peloton. I already have one and I’m getting the dust off of my Peloton and getting into it.” Now, I start to see #PelotonMedTwitter popping up. That was two friends who have been on my podcast that launched that and have helped manifest it and grow it.

There’s a whole bunch of people that are now like, “Let’s do some group rides together. We are going to do this ride at 6:00 AM. Is anyone doing some core work? I hit a milestone.” It grew quickly because we realized that while we are going through this shared experience of fear, anxiety, learning, or challenge, whatever adjective you want to use, we are also finding this shared experience of, this is a good way for us to take care of ourselves and build some community, and have a little bit of fun amongst some pretty dark times.

I would also think even when it’s not a pandemic, it’s a way to get some precious time back. You don’t have to go to the gym to do things like that anymore.

It’s a good observation. I know you would have more insight around this than I would, the two of you, based on the scope of your interviews and such. The moment of inertia around exercise is not trivial. Walking to my office wearing whatever, grab the water bottle or, “I forgot it. Maybe I can text my wife and she will bring it to me.” The motif around exercise initiation is a lot better than, “Where’s my stuff? Where’s the membership card?” I’m not criticizing that but I found that for me, it worked well. My excuse-o-meter dropped significantly. Grab your shirt. Go get on it for ten minutes. It’s better than nothing. I did and I built that rhythm.

There are people who love the ritual of going to the gym and that has a lot of appeal for them, but I think that those people have something wrong with them. I’m not a medical professional, but if I were, I would still be right. Some people enjoy that and they are largely in the BDSM community and that’s okay.

There’s nothing wrong with the BDSM community either.

There’s not. I’m just saying some people like that.

There are going to be people coming for you. Do not at me. At him.

I don’t know that I’d say coming. What? I don’t know that I should say bud either.

I read the show. I looked at your followers, you have a lot of prominent names that are checking you all out. I can’t wait for the comments on this. Dig yourself out of this one. Keep going. You are doing fine.

He’s going to let it go. He’s at peace with it.

This is what I bring to the equation. It’s my only skill.

I was going to say before Tom’s tirade or whatever that was. I felt the same way about the lack of excuses. I feel like I have never exercised regularly before I got the Peloton and it completely changed my life. Every aspect of our life has been touched because it all started with Peloton. It’s crazy. This show and then I ended up changing jobs and now I help people lose weight and do nutrition. I got my certified personal trainer and nutrition certificate. All of these things got set in motion because I got engaged enough wanting to keep going and I think that’s cool.

It’s a great thing and then it continues to grow. One of the things that then for me happened in terms of which instructors I enjoy and which classes I like. I’m cruising along and I’m going to name-drop a friend of mine, Mark Hertling. He’s on CNN a lot. He’s a retired general and he’s an authority on the war in Ukraine. He’s a friend of mine and he had said to me, “You have to do classes with Olivia Amato and I should have known better. I should have known what was coming.

He punishes people for a living.

When Lieutenant General Hertling says, “This is the person who you should be riding with.”

He literally has hurt in his name.

I can’t wait to send him this. He’s the nicest guy. He’s a wonderful person. He was looking out for me when he said this. I have to be honest. There is something about seeing Olivia Amato hitting Hills for 30 minutes or 45-minute Power Zone Max where you are like, “I’m going to do that ride. It’s going to be rough. It’s going to be an event and I’m going to feel it.” She’s a very skilled instructor.

You know what her nickname is, right?


The Tiny Assassin.

Nailed it. That’s a hard cosign for me.

Now I get why a general like it.

I liked it. They are all authentic in their own way. I think a lot of them do. They own that this is not easy and that they are inviting you to do something hard. They are inviting you to do it in your own way and just get there. Just finish. Just stay on the bike or the yoga mat. Just hold onto the barbell because no one is watching. No one is checking your metrics. No one else cares except for that piece of, “Just get that done because you will get the benefit.” Olivia does that but she does that in that plane of, “What you are doing is exceptionally hard. I’m a professional athlete. This is hard for me too and you are here with me.” For me, it feels good.

You said a lot of things that the instructors say that get me all fired up and ready for a class. It keeps you going. It becomes part of your every day.

If they crushed you to the point where you are getting off the bike, you are not feeling very good, or somehow you are feeling bad about yourself because of the narrative that no one would continue to use it.

Many people who haven’t used Peloton think that the instructor yells at you. That’s a form of inspiration that works for some people because sports coaches have used it for so long, but if they were doing that, I don’t think they’d be near as popular.

Do you think they seek out this feedback like this conversation? You guys have a prominent Peloton adjacent entity here. What’s your sense of their interest in that athlete/customer feedback, or do you think they are pretty dialed in? They have got their sponsorships. They have their book deals they are rolling. How do you think they navigate that?

Peloton or the instructors?

I would say the instructors more than Peloton. I get the sense that each instructor takes ownership of their own space.

That is accurate. It’s just like what you see on the bike that differs among instructors. Not that I would ever do this, but if I sent the exact same message like, “I enjoyed your class,” to 25 different instructors, I would get 25 very different responses. Most of them would probably not respond to me.

They get inundated.

Exactly. They get so many messages from people and you got to do something to pull them in. I think the people that say things that stand out. To your point, there was a post from Emma Lovewell where she said, “I want to show you guys my inbox.” It was all of these people reaching out to her saying how amazing Peloton and the platform are, and what she has done specifically that has encouraged them and has kept them going. The instructors literally get inundated with that. I think that’s the kind of message and feedback they respond to. It’s different for everybody what exactly that is. Emma might respond a little differently than Alex might respond a little differently from Robin. Robin is impossible to get ahold of. I’m just saying.

That’s interesting that they have become such lightning rods for the whole spectrum of the human experience. I would bet you $100 if you were to say back in 2016 when you signed your contract, did you think this was going to happen? They’d say no. “We were going to have some fun.” I get that same sense that people share very deeply personal things, difficult and successful, and give attribution and credit to the experience that they are having on this exercise platform. Saying it out loud sounds a little surprising but it’s also a credit to what they have been able to put together. I feel very much the same way. We all agree. That was easy.

Homecoming is an interesting thing because it used to take place in person. You would go if you were lucky enough to get tickets. You would fly to New York and you would have an entire four-day weekend at the studio. You would get to take a crap ton of classes, meet all the instructors, and go to an amazing party.

The first year we did it, it was a legit cocktail party and the instructors were wandering around free range.

They were just standing around the room. That was the first time I had ever met any of the instructors, and I met all the instructors that night that worked there at the time.

Do you guys know some of the instructors?

Now I do. I have good relationships with some of them, but you have to talk to them all the time. I will give you an example. Matty Maggiacomo came on our show way back when Peloton used to give us interviews and before the instructors were so sought after. He came on the show and we all hit it off. Tom and Matty are meant for each other.

Matty also came to St. Louis because when they opened the store here, he was one of the instructors that used to do visits at the store. He came out to the store and I got to meet him in person and we all hit it off. We talked so much that night. We hung out forever. When I got to go back to homecoming, we already knew him. We see him again and he remembered us. There are a few instructors that we are lucky enough to have that relationship with. Some people have managed to get those relationships because they have been part of Peloton since the beginning. People who have ridden with Jenn Sherman have literally ridden with her since 2012.

When their names pop up when she scrolls, she’s like, “Cool. This account is back.”

If you are a fan of a rock band who plays in stadiums, but you started seeing them when they were in clubs, they remember the people from the clubs.

That’s a good analogy. For me, I have come to know them as their celebrity self and to conceptualize them like they live their lives like anyone else. It’s a trip because these are very prominent people with whom I spend a non-trivial amount of time.

I compare it a lot to the rise of The Celebrity Chef. Nobody became a chef thinking, “This is my road to fame.” At some point that flipped and it flipped because of Alice Cooper’s manager Shep. He loved chefs and thought they should be famous and made it happen single-handedly.

Tom knows everything about pop culture.

I have got one for you. Guy Fieri is from my hometown. There’s a whole bunch of restaurants here.

There’s a good documentary about the chef guy called Supermench, he is fascinating. I compare it to that. Nobody became a fitness instructor thinking that it would make them famous. The number of famous fitness people you could count on one hand prior to that. You had Richard Simmons and Jack LaLanne. You got to go back to the ‘50s like Jane Fonda, but she was famous for other reasons.

The older you get, the less you care about whether or not people like you. Click To Tweet

Charles Atlas. I will go toe to toe on pop culture.

It’s a finite number. Now there is a path. Honestly, at the moment anyway, the only path is through Peloton. Look how many iPhones there are. Tens of millions. Name an Apple instructor. You can’t do it.

Homecoming was always a blast. In 2020, they switched that over to virtual for obvious reasons and it’s remained virtual since then. I’m not exactly sure what they are doing this year. They haven’t announced it. They are saying they are going on the road, but nobody knows exactly what that means. For all we know, they are going to have an in-person component and an on-the-road component, or maybe they are going to send all the instructors out on the road to different stores. I have no idea.

Maybe they all show up at your house and that would be awesome. Maybe you guys will text me and I will come and join you.

I will do that. First, you have to wake me up because I will have fainted if they all show up at my house.

She will be upset that we didn’t clean first.

That’s true, Why didn’t you tell me you were coming?

I feel like I could go on mute and the two of you could riff and you could give me a guest credit and it would be as good.

I want to talk to you about your podcast. Tell us about your podcast. For the audience, tell them what it is.

I host a podcast called Explore The Space Podcast. I have been in clinical practice as what’s called a hospitalist since 2006. What a hospitalist is I did my training in internal medicine and I specialized in the care of hospitalized adults. I only take care of people who are in the hospital or who have been admitted to the hospital and I take care of them while they are there.

It’s the fastest-growing specialty in the history of American medicine. The vast majority of American hospitals utilize hospitalists to care for their patients who are admitted. I’m doing it for a while and I come to this place of there are some disconnects in our shared understanding of what we are trying to accomplish with respect to healthcare at the individual level, community level, and national level. I have always enjoyed storytelling and public speaking.

I was an early podcast adopter in terms of listening and I realized that the technical barriers to starting a show weren’t as insurmountable as I thought and so off we went. In 2015, right around the time you guys were getting going with Peloton is when I started podcasting. What I found in creating a space where having conversations with intelligent people on subjects that mattered to a broad audience underneath the umbrella of healthcare gave me a rich and fertile opportunity to go in a lot of different directions.

The first was opportunities for learning a variety of subjects, and my subject matter has been very eclectic over the years. Over the last couple of years, even before the pandemic, a lot more stuff honing in on gender equity, leadership, subject matter, climate change-related subject matter, and advocacy, particularly for healthcare professionals, a lot of which is in the space of gun violence prevention, gun violence education and communication, and risk reduction.

Those sorts of conversations have been extraordinarily empowering for me both as a physician to understand the platform that I have and the opportunities that I have to help us drive towards what we all seek out. It’s right there. Life liberty in the pursuit of happiness. At the same time, elevate voices that have been historically underrepresented. Bring out topics that are of interest to a broad audience and also at the end of the day, try to have some fun and try to create a space where people are listening to their podcasts when they are on working out, doing chores, or commuting. A little bit of escapism. A conversation that people want to jump into. It’s been an extraordinary ride. We have done Peloton-related podcasts during the pandemic.

We have had a lot of fun with that subject matter. What resonates for people that a broad audience can connect to, and what I have also found is it takes away that remove. Sometimes people can feel like their healthcare professionals are difficult to access/unapproachable and are also not seen as whole people.

I’m a very busy, enthusiastic, and proud clinical physician and I am a whole person. I laugh, cry, ride my Peloton, tell jokes, and I love Ted Lasso. I have a family and I enjoy my food. We are whole people too, and there’s a demystification process that happens there. I have to shout out. We created a whole other podcast called MedLasso with Explore The Space around why this show is so resonant for healthcare professionals, and we are out of our minds because season three is coming.

I love Ted Lasso. It’s so great.

I didn’t say it was the best. Imagine if Ted Lasso rode a Peloton. That’s really it. It’s on all the usual podcast platforms. Episode 308 went up. Similar to what you both are doing. There’s a sense of purpose that comes with that and there’s a community that arises and there’s an opportunity to aspire to things that maybe ten years ago we didn’t even conceive of. There’s a real sense of satisfaction and joy there.

You mentioned that you have such a huge variety of topics that you have on your podcast. Is there a type that you get the most enjoyment out of?

I am usually asked what my favorite episode is. Any proud parent would say I love them all equally. That’s a good one. It depends on what I like when a guest says things to me because I don’t script the show at all. It’s like good improv. It goes where it wants to go. There are some themes that I want to get to, but if you say something tasty, I’m going to pick it up. If you say something cool, we are going to build there. I’m not going to say, “That’s interesting, and question four is.”

I like it when a bias that I have is shattered. I like it when a supposition that I have, I get some education around. I have developed a sense of courage. I don’t want to give myself too much credit here, but I am more courageous in tackling subject matter that Mark Shapiro ten years ago would have said, “That’s a no-fly for me as a whatever.” As a physician or human being. Too scary and too much conflict. Somebody might not like me or someone might disagree with me. I think that the places now where I can step into the tension with a guest and have some interesting and thoughtful conversations on subject matter that is of import and has some weight, I think that’s that for sure.

The older you get, the less you care about whether or not people like you.

You promise. I’m way older.

One of us is old enough.

I’m staying out of those.

I’m a people pleaser. It’s an interesting thing. Even in the space of Peloton. It is a brand that takes its slings and arrows. I think that when you have something that you enjoy and feel good about, you have to ride that roller coaster. That’s been a good opportunity for me to be in the podcasting space and be on social media and have some cache. I’m sure for you, people pitch you and they want to come on your show. They want to do stuff with you both because of what you have created. It’s a heady space and it’s important to remember again, we are whole people at the end of the day and navigate it thusly because otherwise, it can get humbling really fast.

Wish I could joke around with my doctor like this.

You don’t want it to be me because that means you are in the hospital. That’s no good.

I have no more hospital visits. I’m good. Thanks.

You have been through it, and the two of you too. It must be said. Respect to both of you. We had booked this episode six weeks ago or something like that.

It would have been like 4 or 5 days after she was hit by the car. She got hit on a Sunday. I think it was that Thursday.

I remember the messages that you both sent me left the door open like we could do this. I’m glad that we all had the situational awareness to say, “This is not that important. We can do this some other time.” Both of you need to heal. It’s important. There are great learning lessons. There’s a prominent physician on social media, Dr. Glaucomflecken. He’s an ophthalmologist. He’s well known on YouTube and Twitter, and his wife, Lady Glaucomflecken. They are great. They are hilarious.

It’s like eye residue. It’s a real thing. You got to look them up. They are phenomenal. I have had him on Explore The Space and they have both blown up. He suffered sudden cardiac death two years ago. She resuscitated him. They have been very open and transparent about this. She published an article and shared it on Twitter about the experience of survivorship and the trauma that is associated with the person who has suffered something.

Crystal suffered something horrible and had to recover from it, and it must be said for you Tom too. Your wife got injured and you got a phone call like there’s been an accident. The things that come out of that for you both as a couple, you both as individuals and for us as a shared community, it would have been very clumsy for me to say, “I’m glad you are doing better. Let’s record a podcast on post-op day four.” That would not have been the right move in that situation. That was a long way for me to get to that. Shout-out to the Glaucomfleckens. That was the space of like, “We are not doing this today. We will reconnect down the road.”

I never liked to cancel on somebody and I didn’t want to, but I also wanted to. I was very grateful when you took us up on that.

This would have been a weird interview for me.

I would not have been as happy.

This would have been lots of stops and starts.

She would hold her headphones like this the whole time.

I did record afterwards and I had to take it off my ear.

She was a club DJ.

I would have been asking the whole time like, “Are you alright? Should we be doing this?”

Ignore the black eye. It’s fine.

He’s like, “Are you sure this was because of a car? Do you need to speak in private?”

If the intro ever includes the words, “Don’t worry about the black eye,” we should be rethinking our podcast.

I did have to record a few times with a black eye, but it stayed forever. It just cleared up.

You should have the Glaucomfleckens on. He’s an ophthalmologist. He will break it all down for you.

The goose egg is still here. It has been five weeks on Sunday. We had to move on at some point.

Our public demands it of us.

That first week though, thank you for letting us take the best.

You don’t have to thank me.

She was so good about getting back to it. He was the only one that we ended up skipping that we reshuffled. She got back to it pretty quickly. He’s like, “What? It was just me. No. Now I feel like maybe you just use that.

When you have something that you enjoy and feel good about, you just have to ride that roller coaster. Click To Tweet

The actual truth wasn’t because the next week, I had been planning on working on scheduling a bunch of people and it all fell apart then and I got way off track. It still took some time.

Yet here we are and this is awesome.

It is. I want to make sure that we give you the opportunity to share your leaderboard name if anybody wants to follow you on the leaderboard and if you would like to share it.

I was going to say my Twitter handle. On the Peloton leaderboard, it’s @ExploreTheSpace. The hashtags that I ride under, there’s #PelotonMed, #PelotonMedTwitter, and #MedLasso. This is my main one right now. If you see my name and it pops up, it will say #MedLasso because you look for who’s riding at the same time. We are always checking like, “Who’s here from Peloton Med Twitter.” It’s cool. It’s great and there’s always someone there. I don’t know if we invented this term. There’s nothing new under the sun. It’s the flyby high-five.

That’s where you don’t go into the actual class.

We didn’t invent it. I will tell my buddy, Ken. We didn’t invent that.

You can let him think that you did. It’s okay.

It could have started there. Maybe we stole it from you. I didn’t steal it from anybody.

I’m going to bet that Ken and I are not that smart. We are not bad but we are not that smart.

Hopefully, you will start using the feed, which is in the beta and you will be able to see other classes that people took. You can highfive them from there too. You don’t have to go to the class anymore.

That’s cool to know because one of the best parts of Peloton Med Twitter is when people shout out their wins. I’m about to do my 500th ride. Let’s do it. It will be that I’m on Pacific Standard Time and they are going to do the 6:00 AM Eastern Time. I’m not waking up at 3:00 AM.

They don’t like you that much.

Exactly. That’s a cool way for us to do that because right now, there are two big things in the #PelotonMedTwitter community. That’s the big one. It’s my birthday ride. We got a big conference and we are going to do the fundraiser ride or whatever the case may be, or it’s my 500th workout. The other one is after we do rides, I love to do this. I will post a snapshot of the ride that I did and I have started doing it because I’m a narcissist. A picture or a selfie, all sweating and a mess, and my favorite quote from the instructor. It’s fun. Some little things for me about what I was feeling that day, and I will put that on Twitter and Instagram. There are lots of other people that do that too. That’s the way we as a community keep in touch with what we are doing on Peloton and it’s fun.

We do a lot of selfies. There’s a whole group on Facebook called Sweaty Selfies.

How do I get to ride with you both? Let’s do this.

Tom never rides. He refuses to touch the bike or any Peloton equipment.

Not what I was expecting.

You could Tonal with him, but that’s a whole other thing. You could ride with me anytime. I haven’t been riding as much I have been running as much more because I’m trying to get my stamina back up for Big Sur.

You have got yourself a challenge ahead. That’s awesome.

That I do, but I’m easy to find on the leaderboard. ClipOutCrystal. I would love that. We should do that sometime. That would be a lot of fun.

That would be fun.

She can tell me all about it.

He can at least walk by the screen. Maybe I will make him hit the highfive button.

When she’s dropping the hammer on the Peloton equipment and her heart rate is up, do you ever walk in with a coffee and sit down?

I don’t like coffee. I’m weird.

Come on. I was going to ask you to be one of my new besties, but now you don’t like coffee.

I’m a soda guy. I drink a lot of soda.

Let’s try this again. When she’s working out and going hard, and you are like, do you ever walk in with a soda and just sit down, “Honey, how’s it going?”

All our exercise equipment is in the basement. If I’m in the basement it’s because I’m going to use the Tonal. I don’t know if they have ever said this on the show, but it will probably weird people out. When I work out, I drink soda. I have a soda with me when I use the Tonal.

He is technically drinking a soda. He does make me mad when he’s done with his twenty-minute workout and I’m two hours in. I’m still going.

That’s because you are training for a marathon. You are doing these 2 and 3-hour runs.

He gets his peak heart rate fast because he banged down two Coca-Colas before he even got in there.

And I’m watching her jog.

I must be a good podcast host. I came on another podcast and I got you to spill something. That’s cool. I’d say you spilled some tea but you spilled some soda.

Coke Zero if you must know.

If you are going to drink a soda, just have a soda.

No. Do you want Tom to weigh 400 pounds? He would.

It’s not like one soda.

I don’t have a soda. I drink like it’s not good. I drink way too much soda but it’s my one vice. I don’t drink or smoke. I have almost completely cut out black tar heroin. Almost. Baby steps.

You and your adverbs.

Specificity is humor. That’s what I have been told.

We will pick this one up on This Weekend’s Soda. That should be our spinoff podcast.

I would love to be on that podcast. I drink a lot of soda so I used to be much heavier and I switched to diet soda. You will like this story since you are a doctor. My doctor finally said something that got through to me because he’d been trying to get me to at least switch to diet soda for years. He asked how much soda I drank and I told him, and then once we picked him up off the floor he was like, “You are drinking your recommended calories every day. The baseline is soda and then anything you eat makes you fat.”

Isn’t it fascinating? I will always enjoy and have deep respect for this part of what I get to do professionally is the art of finding the lever. It’s a different lever for everyone and there are different access points to drive behavioral change for everyone. It’s so good that you understand what it was for you, and that same lever might not work for someone else. For this person who’s your care provider to know that they are going to have to tinker a little bit. They are going to have to try a different level with someone else with exercise or whatever the behavioral change that we are looking for is to understand what those levers are.

For you as the person hearing it to be vulnerable enough to take it on board, and say, “That’s an opportunity for improvement. This is an opportunity for me to do something different and to do something that will help myself and others who are important to me.” It’s a fascinating part of all of our shared journey.

I literally went back to work that day and was like, “I will have a diet instead.” I worked at a concert club at the time and so I had unfettered access to a soda gun and an auto fryer. When you can make tatter tots anytime you want and you don’t get to clean the fryer because they have got kids for that. I grab the soda gun. I was like, “I’m going to hit the diet Pepsi instead of the Pepsi.”

I’m so proud of you.

One of the themes of our conversation if we think about it has been around behavioral change and adaptation. You had the opportunity to decide Peloton was going to be a big part of your life. I by necessity needed to find something and we found a lever and again, opportunities to change the things that we eat and put in our bodies for fuel, acknowledging that we can still enjoy them.

I can’t enjoy it anymore. Regular soda tastes gross to me now.

That is true. Now it’s too sweet for him. He doesn’t like it.

Whenever to get me the wrong soda, I’m like, “That’s gross.”

He never complains about food, but if you bring him the wrong soda, he will taste it.

There are different access points to drive behavioral change for everyone. Click To Tweet

I think you guys need a second podcast called This Weekend Soda or something. You are primed for it. The Soda Journey.

The Soda Jerk.

It writes itself.

Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to join us. I know doctors are very busy even more so if they have podcasts. We greatly appreciate that. Before we let you go, remind everybody of the name of your show and where they can find all your things.

I appreciate that. The podcast is called Explore The Space Podcast. It’s on all the usual podcast platforms at the website I’m on Twitter @ETSShow. Instagram @ExploreTheSpaceShow and on the Peloton leaderboard @ExploreTheSpace.

I’m realizing what we should have done since he’s a doctor when we started the Zoom call, we should have left him in the waiting room for twenty minutes.

That’s a first and I liked it very much. That was very well played. Respect. I will share that and give you both full credit. That was very well played. Years of a lot of Zoom calls and that’s the first time I have gotten that one. That’s awesome.

Thank you for the interview.

I guess that brings this episode to a close. Until next time, where can people find you?

People can find me on Facebook at They can find me on Instagram, Twitter, and the Peloton leaderboard @ClipOutCrystal.

You can find me on Twitter @RogerQBert or on Facebook at You can find the show online on While you’re there, like the page and join the group. Don’t forget, you can watch all of these on YouTube. That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep pedaling and running and rowing. 


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